Open Discussion

[James H. Fetzer]

Sandy has suggested that we have a space for open discussion of topics that may be off-topic. That's fine with me. Let's see if the "Discussion" option will serve that purpose. Please give it a shot. Jim

[Mark E. Smith]

 

But, but, but it was Sarah Palin who was going to kill wolves and other endangered species. That's why Democrats held their noses about his plans for bigger bailouts and more wars, and voted for Obama. I mean what's a few million innocent kids drone bombed if you can save a polar bear? And come to find out, he drone bombed the kids and didn't bother to save the polar bears. Darn. Fooled again, huh? I had an interesting discussion with a voter recently: http://fubarandgrill.org/node/1172

 

I'm beginning to think that people who vote really aren't capable of logical thinking, or at least aren't capable of acting rationally even if they can think rationally.

 

[Jeannon Kralj]

Voted for Bush cause he said he would end abortion.  We got war and continued abortion.  Decided no one was going to do anything to stop abortion anyway, so voted for Obama because he said he would end the wars and bring the troops home.  We got more war and more abortions.

 

Have decided not to vote for president again.  If everyone would just not vote in that race, whoever won would not be able to claim legitimacy.

 

Would love to see Holder kicked out and an honest A.G. put in to prosecute and imprison about the top one thousand Wall Street banker criminals.  I think that would do a lot for the country right now.

Mark E. Smith said:

 

But, but, but it was Sarah Palin who was going to kill wolves and other endangered species. That's why Democrats held their noses about his plans for bigger bailouts and more wars, and voted for Obama. I mean what's a few million innocent kids drone bombed if you can save a polar bear? And come to find out, he drone bombed the kids and didn't bother to save the polar bears. Darn. Fooled again, huh? I had an interesting discussion with a voter recently: http://fubarandgrill.org/node/1172

 

I'm beginning to think that people who vote really aren't capable of logical thinking, or at least aren't capable of acting rationally even if they can think rationally.

 

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

Here's a question.  How can I contribute money to this forum and website?  The answer is probably right in front of me, right?

[Shallel Octavia]

Hi Pasquale -

 

Jim sent the message below about going to a ten dollar a year subscription, I've seen lots of positive responses, as this will allow more members to join. I am sure he will follow up with details. I believe he has been paying out of pocket for most costs associated with this site and 911scholars.org. I have donated to 9/11scholars.org @ link below. I'm sure Jim would appreciate any contributions!

link: http://twilightpines.com//index.php?option=com_content&task=vie...     (click on "Donate" button)

 

From Jim:

All,

 

Please know that Ning, which provides the framework for these forums, has the apparatus

to place this forum on a subscription basis.  I was asking if you think that $10 per year per

member was an appropriate subscription rate.  I infer that it is.  I therefore need to contact

Ning to implement this new arrangement, which should enable me to add new members.  We

have a waiting list of 87 who would like to join, which this should enable me to permit.  So I

am going to try to get this set up and implemented sometime next week.  Some of you have

written to offer support, which I greatly appreciate.  I think we will give this a try.  Thank you!

 

Jim 

 

 

Pace e Benedizioni,

Shallel

[Shallel Octavia]

I will certainly not vote for a "D" or an "R"!!!

Jeannon Kralj said:

Voted for Bush cause he said he would end abortion.  We got war and continued abortion.  Decided no one was going to do anything to stop abortion anyway, so voted for Obama because he said he would end the wars and bring the troops home.  We got more war and more abortions.

 

Have decided not to vote for president again.  If everyone would just not vote in that race, whoever won would not be able to claim legitimacy.

 

Would love to see Holder kicked out and an honest A.G. put in to prosecute and imprison about the top one thousand Wall Street banker criminals.  I think that would do a lot for the country right now.

Mark E. Smith said:

 

But, but, but it was Sarah Palin who was going to kill wolves and other endangered species. That's why Democrats held their noses about his plans for bigger bailouts and more wars, and voted for Obama. I mean what's a few million innocent kids drone bombed if you can save a polar bear? And come to find out, he drone bombed the kids and didn't bother to save the polar bears. Darn. Fooled again, huh? I had an interesting discussion with a voter recently: http://fubarandgrill.org/node/1172

 

I'm beginning to think that people who vote really aren't capable of logical thinking, or at least aren't capable of acting rationally even if they can think rationally.

 

[Shallel Octavia]

Yes, there is NO respect for life, animal or human. It's a disgrace. As I have said the Citizenry will be accountable if they continue to go along to get along and reap benefits of these evil, evil policies...

Jim Kirwan has some strong words on this:

First We End The Slaughter By Jim Kirwan
8-16-11

Millions are 'concerned about the Economy, the Stock Markets, their jobs, their retirement, their healthcare. I bring you NEWS! Until you decide to end the mass-murder of other people by this country; not just the billions we have killed from even before this country was formed-but in particular the millions upon millions that we are still killing each every day right now: Everything will only get worse!   What kind of a nation chooses to follow leaders that stand for global-crime, global-bloodshed and global empire over every other people on the planet (we have officially declared WAR upon the entire world) and that fact must be changed. If this is not done soon then everything else will be torn apart right before our eyes; and the survivors shall become nameless faceless slaves.   This is part of a response I just received today: This is just a note in response to Big Brother 2.0. (1)   "Well it wasn't long after the ink dried on Euro Crises, first in Greece then it turned hot in France and England and today's news was quite bad for Germany   NO GROWTH, stopped in its tracks by all this debt, meltdowns and general increasing lack of faith in these corrupt systems, and Euro is among the more benign ones! ALL others will be heading down it looks like, as even today, stocks failed to rally back enough and it may falter on any more bad news. Bad News? Just about anything from anywhere,   Its all going downhill worldwide, sliding into the vortex, as the world reaches 7 Billion People you can hear the frustration and hate from world leaders, too many people they don't want and of course eco minions chime right in on que, people are meat; meat is murder and of course we are all just a virus to eco freaks who know all about everything, except who their leaders are and where the funding for such drivel comes from.   Sorry to digress, but it's the Economy now forefront on everyone's mind, worry is increasing, No solutions in sight, because well they don't want any! It's supposed to go down, easy money on the south side of Chicago. The South side, where trillions are just sitting ducks for Wall Street banksters, Easy pickings, you can see the harvest coming closer each day. It's SOOOO RIPE FOR PLUCKING! People seem to know about the cops, been that way for decades, and they are used to such brutality.   k) You just proved my case: Nothing is going to stop going savagely down until we end the leadership roles that have been aggressively occupying this government and the nation since 2001.   You just want to scream but no one hears the cries of those in jail or even outside in our wonderful open air prison camp known as California, where to me the barbwire fences along freeways give a clue as to the police state you are entering. Where once barbwire meant cattle country, it now means freeways; access restricted, and also tightly restricted National Forests now! Barbwire everywhere up there!   More wire than a FEMA Camp! And it's all a TOW-AWAY zone to boot! So anyway, it seems to be going faster each day, headed right for some rendezvous with our destiny and it seems almost no way to get prepared to deal with it! The Ranch seems perpetually unable to deliver any productivity, just endless work and rattlers. I can see production, but it's always just out of reach.   Like a mirage, like there will be water if we just keep digging??? CA is a dry hole, water is cutback, (thank Cheney for this one; he's been privatizing water while he drains the aquifers all over this country) No new projects on the boards, eco's have seen to that. So it's just another day at the Purgatory Ranch, always half-way always half-assed, always.   A day late and a dollar short... Plus sitting atop the San Andreas Fault gives extra feeling of doom and California's day is coming as entire Pacific Rim is hot to go except for West Coast of USA, Eerily quiet. . ."   This is only one letter but there have been many, many more. The point is always the same which is "of course there are problems with the cops and the politics, but hey I've got to care about ______ first."   What is apparently still unclear to most of America is that NOTHING CAN OR WILL CHANGE UNTIL WE DEAL DIRECTLY WITH THE CRIMINALS THAT ARE CALLING ALL THE SHOTS, AND END THEIR FILTHY CAREERS, FOREVER. Otherwise we shall all become fodder for the vultures that are symbolized above.   This is the legacy that was left to the America Public by an overabundance of COMPARTMENTALIZATION, "Need to Know" and an overarching National Security State that threatens everyone who challenges them with prison or worse.   So until we deal directly with these arrogant global-criminals and the thugs that do their bidding in the streets every day, it will be literally impossible to save anything that is currently on the privatized government's chopping-blocks. Why oh why can so many people simply FAIL to understand this glaring fact! No Outlaw will ever willingly give up his or her ill-gotten gains, or the false-flags of the power they currently wield-the only way we can end this is to take back our power from them and prosecute every single one of them, eventually!   Take a look at this meticulous breakdown of what was really behind the London riots and try to understand just how virtually hopeless that situation has become: BECAUSE JUST LIKE AMERICA THEY TOO HAVE FAILED TO DIRECTLY CONFRONT THEIR ENEMY'S. (2)   This country was once filled with men and women that would fight rather than just lie down and take what's going on now. But what is living here now are not those people from another age. There are just too many craven cowards among us now that must be forced to choose before the wrath of the public snaps and brings this whole house of blood-soaked cards down on all our heads. It all begins by saying NO!   [e-mail]     1) Big Brother 2.0 http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/big-brother-2-0-10-new-ways- that-the-government-will-be-spying-on-you-and-controlling-your-behavior   2) Molyneus on Real Source of the British Riots http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiw3wg1mgro&feature=player_embedded

Mark E. Smith said:

 

But, but, but it was Sarah Palin who was going to kill wolves and other endangered species. That's why Democrats held their noses about his plans for bigger bailouts and more wars, and voted for Obama. I mean what's a few million innocent kids drone bombed if you can save a polar bear? And come to find out, he drone bombed the kids and didn't bother to save the polar bears. Darn. Fooled again, huh? I had an interesting discussion with a voter recently: http://fubarandgrill.org/node/1172

 

I'm beginning to think that people who vote really aren't capable of logical thinking, or at least aren't capable of acting rationally even if they can think rationally.

 

[Thoth II]

Thoth II said:

I am also disgusted with CSPAN.  They offer a weekend longs program entitled booktv, where authors of nonfiction books talk.  I notice that they always have on mainstream historians and avoid conspiracy researchers.  These mainstream historians are just spouting the party line.  

 

National Geographic Channel today has gone down the dark side's most cynical in your face propaganda route, airing "The liquid bomb plot"   "W Bush: the 911 interview" , and "inside Saddam's reign of terror".

 

National Geographic Channel was supposed to represent the earth from a natural and multicultural viewpoint, but now has been hijacked by the ugliest elements of the propaganda artists.  This is a sad, sad world to have lived through.  I remember in the 1960s picking up a copy of national geographic and getting a wonderful sensitive understanding of this world.  

 

 

[Thoth II]

I don't know about youall but I am about ready to OD on the MSM 911 and JFK lineups this weekend, it has been absolutely unrelenting from history channel to national geographic channel to military history channel, unbelievably airing a Gary Mack piece of deception (when Humes/Boswell were involved) and now coast to coast is in on the act:

 

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/

 

I think Punnett with not give 911 truth a fair shake but Wells might relieve our suffering by interviewing Russ Baker, generally a good journalist, an honest and thorough one.  

 

I keep getting astounded how low, lowlife this country's propaganda machinery has become, how robotlike its people.  I would contend Joseph Goebbels and NAZI germany did not even reach these operatic heights, they only were in business 12 years, this machine has been in business since after WWII.  I guess Russ Baker will be the only relief other than this website for now.  

[Mark E. Smith]

 

It is times like this that I appreciate not having a TV and never listening to the radio.

 

The few dozen mailing lists I subscribe to and the 300 or so people I follow on Twitter aren't brainwashed. It is easy to unsubscribe from a mailing list or block somebody on Twitter if they turn out to be deliberately ignorant (not wanting to know the truth because they derive some benefit from the lies).

 

If I want information, I look for the information I want. I don't just sit with my brain wide open and let anybody pour in anything they wish. 

 

US imperialism and the propaganda to justify it have been in business since this country started. I highly recommend S. Brian Willson's new book, Blood on the Tracks, for an overview of US imperialism past and present. Brian, if you recall, is the dude who got run over by a train and lost his legs trying to block weapons shipments to the Contras from the Concord Naval Weapons Station. He grew up like most people, brainwashed by the American Way of Life and went to Viet Nam thinking he was helping to fight the evil Communists. He learned that anyone who resists imperialism is labeled a Communist or terrorist, and that anyone who dares to even dream of a truly democratic form of government is considered a threat to imperialism, particularly if they happen to be poor. 

 

Knowing that this is the tenth anniversary of the 9/11 false flag operation, I decided that if I went out I would wear my big red and white "9/11 = Inside job" button and carry my copy of Dr. Judy Wood's book, Where did the Towers Go?

 

In today's news, which I learned from various people on Twitter, it seems that the CIA-proxies in Libya attacked a town and were repelled, so they are now calling for NATO to carpet-bomb the town. That isn't going to win them any friends. Support for Gaddafi, originally at about 90%, has been growing steadily with every day of imperialist bombing. As in Iraq, the imperialists have deliberately destroyed Libya's water, electricity, schools, hospitals, and killed as many civilians as they could. Before the US invaded, Libya had the highest standard of living in Africa, with free housing, health care, education, and a guaranteed minimum income for all. It was, like Iraq, an enemy of Al Queda, and the US, which created Al Queda in the first place, but claimed to be fighting Al Queda in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Somalia, is openly allied with Al Queda in Libya. As John Foster Dulles is reported to have said (quoted in Brian's book), "The United States doesn't have friends, it only has interests." The primary interest of the US, of course, is to seek out anything that anyone else might have, kill or enslave the rightful owners, and take whatever it can steal to fuel its military aggression so that it can take more.

 

Throw out the TV, Thoth. Unplug the radio. Buy a copy of Brian's book and any of the books in his bibliography that you haven't already read, and seek out mailing lists and internet friends who no longer listen to MSM lies. I guarantee it will lower your blood pressure and greatly improve your mood. 

 

 

[sandy rose]

yeah, it's truly nauseating, the carrying on of the same old impossible

lies.  don't they feel just a bit stupid still yammering on about the same

old lies while they know that millions of us know the truth?

     the hijackers said this, george wubba did that, yeah, they got their

same old lies all lined up for review.  i can't even watch the crap.

     very glad we have each other online.  helps keep me sane for sure.

 

      carry on, all awesome truthers, (get a real job, all eaves droppers),

at least we all know that the truth is out there larger than life.    lovies.

 

 

Thoth II said:

I don't know about youall but I am about ready to OD on the MSM 911 and JFK lineups this weekend, it has been absolutely unrelenting from history channel to national geographic channel to military history channel, unbelievably airing a Gary Mack piece of deception (when Humes/Boswell were involved) and now coast to coast is in on the act:

 

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/

 

I think Punnett with not give 911 truth a fair shake but Wells might relieve our suffering by interviewing Russ Baker, generally a good journalist, an honest and thorough one.  

 

I keep getting astounded how low, lowlife this country's propaganda machinery has become, how robotlike its people.  I would contend Joseph Goebbels and NAZI germany did not even reach these operatic heights, they only were in business 12 years, this machine has been in business since after WWII.  I guess Russ Baker will be the only relief other than this website for now.  

[Shallel Octavia]

Watching BBC interview Philip Zelikow - just fucking lovely. Not sane. Thanks anyway....

[Thoth II]

Mark good advice.  One of these days I'll chug the TV out the window.  Unfortunately, I'm one of the TV age babies, having been weaned on I love lucy and Andy Griffith on black/white and rabbit ear TV.  I watched religiously Walter Cronkhite, John Chancellor, et al all my life and it'll be like kicking a drug addiction.  Interestingly this morning I am watching the Oliver Stone classic JFK on AMC channel, a channel devoted to classic movies.  I wonder if someone at the AMC network isn't giving a big middle finger up to the rest of the MSM?