Exposing Falsehoods and Revealing Truths
"Did we really see what we thought we saw on 9/11?", Cedar Rapids Gazette
I was just sent this item by Mike Palecek of THE NEW AMERICAN DREAM:
http://www.gazetteonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090706/NEWS/707069946/1002/NEWS
Updated July 06. 2009 11:26AM
Did we really see what we thought we saw on 9/11?
By Dave Rasdal
The Gazette
dave.rasdal@gazettecommunications.com
Photo
(Dave Rasdal/The Gazette)
Russ Gerst of Cedar Rapids questions official findings of the Sept. 11, 2001, collapse of
the World Trade Center in New York City.
Like the rest of us on Sept. 11, 2001, Russ Gerst stared in awe as the World Trade Center
in New York City collapsed into dust.
But now, like only a handful of onlookers, Russ wonders how the Twin Towers crumbled so
quickly and so completely. He questions the validity of the National Institute of
Standards and Technology report of 2005. He thinks mysterious powers were at work. He’s
afraid of what occurred and what could transpire next.
“We’ve got to figure out what happened,” says Russ, 42, of Cedar Rapids. “We can’t listen
to the adults. They’ve already looked at it and say nothing (unusual) happened.”
To be sure, this is a complicated matter that can’t be fully explained in a column like
this or in a two-hour presentation/question/answer session I had with Russ. But, as you
listen to Russ and see supporting data, you can’t help but shake your head. A lot of
“facts” don’t add up, primary among them:
The speed of collapse. One video shows a building collapse in 8 seconds, which defies the
laws of physics. Gravitational pull would require 9.2 seconds. The resistance of concrete
and steel would at least double that.
The volume of debris. Sure, dust floated everywhere, indicating the buildings were
pulverized. But that doesn’t explain how most of the concrete and steel from a 110-story
building could become two or three inches of dust on the ground.
For years after 9/11, Russ didn’t think much about it. The Oakville native applied his
Coe College accounting degree as a financial analyst with Meredith Corp. in Des Moines.
He helped his wife raise their four children, telecommuting from Cedar Rapids starting in
2000 when his wife got a job at AEGON.
Then, Russ saw a Web site that raised plenty of 9/11 questions. Since then, his
fascination has transformed into an obsession. He’s spent 500 hours reading and
researching it the last three years.
Fueling Russ’ interest is his association with physicist Judy Wood, who has challenged
the official findings. She appeared at a national hearing last month in New York City.
Wood, a former mechanical engineering professor at Clemson University, examined thousands
of photographs and videos of the tragedy from every possible angle. She applied her
knowledge to the physical evidence, letting that determine her findings, Russ says.
As you’d expect, other scholars have challenged Wood’s theories. But Russ is not about to
give up, having assembled 25 of her slides into his own presentation, which he’s willing
to share with anyone who has interest.
As Russ talks, you wonder along with him. If an airplane crashed into the tower with
enough force to bring it down, why didn’t the plane come out the other side? How could
the towers collapse so cleanly, spreading only minimal debris over nearby undamaged
buildings? If underground fire contributed to the destruction, how could people like Gov.
George Pataki walk on the debris without getting burned? Why did Hurricane Erin
mysteriously turn away just before the collapse?
The only explanation, Russ says, is that we didn’t see what we thought we saw. That
somehow, someone harnessed energy and directed it to virtually vaporize the World Trade
Center for reasons ranging from terrorism to financial gain.
“What it leads you back to is there is the technology,” Russ says, “and somebody has come
up with it.”
Article Comments
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Posted By: PS2K Post Date: 07/06/09 08:27:00 PM
Title: question
Interesting criticism. Thanks for making my point for me.
Report Abuse
Posted By: GR Post Date: 07/06/09 08:15:00 PM
Title: Bye IZA
If the Gazette only printed stories that IZA approved of, they would risk losing more
than just one reader. Bye Bye IZA, we'll keep reading with or without you!
Report Abuse
Posted By: question Post Date: 07/06/09 08:06:00 PM
Title: Wow
Very interesting on no molten metal. I did see the live feed and tape on u-tube of metal
melting and dripping down the exterior of the towers. Thermite is in the dust that was at
ground zero. I feel you are a lot too sure of your self. Can your opinon and findings be
questioned or will you yell louder to make me believe your views. What did Lenin say
about questioning authority, you die...
Report Abuse
Posted By: Christopher Coty Post Date: 07/06/09 08:04:00 PM
Title: THX FARMER
… for your reasonable thoughts and comments regarding Popular Mechanics and just one of
many other websites offering alternative views to the 911 Comission and “official”
government reports.
I wasn’t familiar with Patriots Question
http://patriotsquestion911.com/
It includes the testimony, eyewitness accounts, reports and theories of the following
groups of people:
190+ Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement
670+ Engineers and Architects
200+ Pilots and Aviation Professionals
400+ Professors Question 9/11
230+ 9/11 Survivors and Family Members
200+ Artists, Entertainers, and Media Professionals
I’m wondering if all these people are all wacko’s and nut jobs, too.
Great article, keep up the good work.
Report Abuse
Posted By: CB Brooklyn Post Date: 07/06/09 07:54:00 PM
Title: What most people don't understand...
The 9/11 coverup perpetrators are controlling the "truth movement" by planting propaganda.
Vladimir Lenin, the first Communist dictator after the takeover of Russia in 1917, is
widely credited with the following quotation, "The best way to control the opposition is
to lead it ourselves."
Molten metal is just one example of the planted propaganda. There was NO molten metal at
Ground Zero.... if there was, there would have been enormous steam explosions with all
the rain and water from the fire department. There were NO steam explosions, hence there
was no molten metal. The carefully planted molten metal propaganda has been fully
dissected here:
WTC Molten Metal: Fact or Fiction?
http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=91&Itemid=60
For full information on what's going on, see the following article:
9/11: Distinguishing The Propaganda From The Smoking Guns
http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=199&Itemid=60
Report Abuse
Posted By: grump Post Date: 07/06/09 07:42:00 PM
Title: Glad this didn't happen in CR
I wonder if NYC hired a consultant at $425 per hour to study this Twin Towers issue like
a city I know of might have done.
Perhaps even hire a Twin Towers Czar or CEO .Possibly fund his salary through a LOST type
tax gouge.
If so, I'm sure this issue would have been put to rest a long time ago.
Or maybe not.
Was Rudy ever caught sleeping in meetings through all this 9-11 "stuff"?
Report Abuse
Posted By: question Post Date: 07/06/09 07:38:00 PM
Title: no logic
ps2k has digressed. He is above all debate and can see clearly what others can not. Ho um
go down the middle of the road you can feel a notch above the discussion and always be
right. I was taught that go with the flow never make a mistake, always knowing more but
can not take a stance is a noddle back person. no spine
Report Abuse
Posted By: PS2K Post Date: 07/06/09 07:22:00 PM
Title: facts, evidence and logic
After reading the article and most of the comments, I am reminded of what my Grandfather
told me almost 50 years ago regarding the Kennedy assination. "Believe none of what you
read and only half of what you see". I am sure he is the originator of the advice, but he
is the one that shared it with me.
No matter what any of us might think about the report or the various and sundry theories
(and theories they must remain) they are good fodder for intense debate and conversation
among conspiracy theorists and governmental apologists both.
History has proven time and again that facts can be quite subjective. The victors write
the history and decide what "facts" they want us to have...but I digress.
It has been very entertaining to read the comments, far more so than the article itself.
Personally, I don't place much stock in the articles subjet regarding his theories and
suppositions, but it is interesting and quite entertaining. As for the commentors...it's
a very nice study in comparisons.
Or, I could just say that nutbags on both side of the aisle will never accept anything
less than total domination and conversion of those that disagree.
Or, I can just start calling someone names and then wait for someone else to question my
thought processes again...Happy Monday to all...
Report Abuse
Posted By: question Post Date: 07/06/09 07:15:00 PM
Title: Change
Hello Gazette I will continue to buy your paper at the Perkins news stand daily. One
person saying good by because of one article can mean more will buy to read about
informative topics that are researched by many people on the internet. Times are changing
have the courage and wisdom to stay current.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Daniel Raleigh Post Date: 07/06/09 07:04:00 PM
Title: I wonder.....
Check into Nikola Tesla's theories. Some were taken when he passed on and never seen
again. Many say by the government....hmmmm.
Report Abuse
Posted By: IZA Post Date: 07/06/09 07:03:00 PM
Title: Thank you Gazette
Thanks for helping me make a decision. I was a bit uncomfortable when the new Gazette
came out, not really liking the change, but trying to understand the need for tight
budgets, etc. So I continued on...
I was a bit more uncomfortable when some editorials started talking about how the readers
should expect less features with the new Gazette and how those features may or may not
show up in a given day (it depended on the page count). I expressed dismay that
everything except my subscription price was getting smaller with the new Gazette. But I
continued on...
So here we are now. This article has made my decision. If the Gazette is now choosing to
publish this type of stuff, it no longer deserves my hard earned dollar to support it.
Goodbye Gazette.
Report Abuse
Posted By: J.E.M. >>> Post Date: 07/06/09 07:01:00 PM
Title: ***** Cahnge
This was clearly a demolition, just watch any building implosion! Also check out the
video ***** change!
Report Abuse
Posted By: T_D Post Date: 07/06/09 06:07:00 PM
Title: ENERGY BEAMS?
Energy rays? Really? Even most other truthers think that's nuts.
Report Abuse
Posted By: LasikGuy09 Post Date: 07/06/09 05:50:00 PM
Title: 911: The Real Deal?
DANG!
Report Abuse
Posted By: Andrew Johnson Post Date: 07/06/09 05:33:00 PM
Title: Dr Greg Jenkins and Hurricane Erin
Gosh - a busy thread!
Someone has already posted a 2-year old reference to Dr Greg Jenkins ambush interview.
With matters covered in this article, it is extremely important to check all the
evidence. So here is some more for you
http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=46&Itemid=60
Name-calling and flippant remarks does not lead one to the truth. Neither do compromised
agencies with glaring conflicts of interest.
Perhaps I should say "Anyone that disagrees with me or the Official Governement
Conspiracy Theory of 9/11 is a nutjob". That way, I won't actually have to discuss or
analyse ANY evidence at all! How cool is that??
One comment mentioned "Government-steered hurricanes". Who says it was the government
that did this? What the articles says is that government agencies are being dishonest
about 9/11. Gosh - as we all know, government agencies are ALWAYS honest and NEVER act as
part of a wider or hidden agenda!!
Report Abuse
Posted By: ctiger Post Date: 07/06/09 05:17:00 PM
Title: Chris
Why do I find you so much more rational than Steve Barry?
It must be because you really are.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Chris Post Date: 07/06/09 04:54:00 PM
Title: Steve Barry
Steve Barry wrote:
"Sounds like youre the nutjob.....were you there? Do you have some sort of degree in
anything but being an idiot? If not whats the point even discussing this ****? The
buildings are down, the people are dead, bush is out of office.
Its douchebags like you who have no life that feel a need to whine and challenge common
knowledge and authority.....BECAUSE YOU HAVE NONE OF EITHER."
----
If you have to call someone a nutjob, douchebag, or whatever other degrading term you'd
care to throw around, odds are that you simply are incapable of forming a coherent,
informed opinion of your own. ;)
-
I haven't whined, but I do challenge "common knowledge" when it's not based on informed,
researched evidence. My analogy was pointing out that, for example, in the US,
particularly the midwest, common knowledge is that Christian belief is genuine.
However, there is less factual evidence in favor of a belief in Christianity than there
is evidence to indicate an informed and cautious skepticism of the way the Twin Towers
were destroyed on 9/11.
-
Occam's Razor states that when you eliminate the *impossible*, then the simplest
explanation remaining, no matter how improbable, is the most likely. Of all the evidence
I've read and looked into after questions started entering my mind about how 9/11 went
down, and subsequent fires in similarly-construct buildings that raged hotter and longer
than the ones in the WTC without causing the destruction of any other building, the
evidence that the 9/11 Commission and official story apologists claim supports their
theory is rendered highly suspect.
-
The simple explanation is this: the plane impacts and subsequent fires were insufficient
to result in the same result as a controlled demolition for both buildings given the
architecture and safety designs incorporated into the WTC infrastructures and the
asymmetrical nature of the impact of each plane into the buildings. This is pure
mathematics and physics. That leaves a simple question: what DID cause the buildings to
collapse into their own footprint, disintegrating the central supporting steel
superstructure in the process? Unfortunately, since the materials were all quickly and
discreetly hauled offsite (and offshore) as soon as possible after the incident, a
forensics investigation into any evidence pointing to the cause is impossible now.
-
I have now dignified your stark-raving frothing-mouthed reply with a polite, logic-based
response. I'd certainly appreciate a polite, logical response in kind if you're so
willing. You see, unlike the knee-jerk reactions that many like yourself are giving, I'm
very willing and able to listen to and research views that contradict my own. My views
are malleable and based upon facts, evidence, and logic. Why does it matter to me?
Because I always seek the truth, whether I like it or not, and whether other people like
it or not.
-
The truth isn't always pleasant. And it isn't always in keeping with one's worldviews.
The truth simply is what it is. Maybe the buildings really did happen to go down in the
most unimaginably impossible set of coincidences that could be arranged. I just haven't
been presented with sufficient evidence to accept that yet.
Report Abuse
Posted By: question Post Date: 07/06/09 04:50:00 PM
Title: Bush
Bush was in Florida and said he saw the first plane crash into the tower. His comment was
"that must be one bad pilot". Then he went into class to read my two pet goats for 20
min. till the second plane hit. This is all on tape and record. The funny thing is there
was not any live coverage of the first plane crash. This is not the last of Bush crimes
you will read about.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Guyowa Post Date: 07/06/09 04:43:00 PM
Title: What
What is the frequency Kenneth?
Report Abuse
Posted By: Cindy Piester Post Date: 07/06/09 04:42:00 PM
Title: Do U care? 911 confessions based on torture
The Gazette deserves a lot of credit to open discussion on the topic of 911. Thank you.
The 911 Commission Report was largely based on the confessions of three men: Khalid Sheik
Mohammed, Zubaydah, and Al Nasheri all brutally tortured first.
Read the Red Cross report: http://www.nybooks.com/icrc-report.pdf
Research on Commission Report by noted Christian theologian Dr. David Ray Griffin:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3319032398046778047
Anyone wanting free informative 911 DVDs send a mailing address to my email:
work4peacenow@gmail.com
Report Abuse
Posted By: Cecil Sneb Post Date: 07/06/09 04:36:00 PM
Title: WHAT THE HELL !!!!
MOST OF US SAW ON LIVE TV, THE SECOND PLANE HIT THE BUILDING ,WHAT IN THE WORLD IS THIS
ALL ABOUT. A FINAL SHOT AT PRESIDENT BUSH ???
Report Abuse
Posted By: Jeff Mcooter Post Date: 07/06/09 04:26:00 PM
Title: twilight zone
DO DO DO DO - There is nothing wrong with your computer monitor , don't try to adjust
your computer , you have just entered the twilight zone .
Report Abuse
Posted By: ctiger Post Date: 07/06/09 04:23:00 PM
Title: Deuce
As you probably know, I will never be surprised by any government atrocity. Some, I can
see going on right now.
What does surprise me is that people will still point at the events of the Third Reich,
yet fail to recognize the symptoms that are right under their noses.
Report Abuse
Posted By: SolPack Post Date: 07/06/09 04:22:00 PM
Title: Adam in Miami you got it
Didn't the people know that in order for oboma to become President he had to sign off on
everything. He had to agree never to tell the people about all of the aliens our
government holds, all of their space ships we are hiding. He had to promise never to tell
the people the our government blew up the world trade center. He promised never let it
out that our government can stop hurricanes , but they didn't want to in New Orleans ,
instead our government blew up the levi. But President Oboma promised to NEVER TELL !!!!
Of course there all kinds of other evil things that the government does but hey don't
tell anyone, do you promise ?
DON'T PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT EVERY PRESIDENT AND GOVERNMENT OFFIAL KEEP ALL OF THESE
THINGS A SECRET FROM THE PEOPLE AND THE NEWS MEDIA AND EVERYONE !!!!!!!!!!!
What a joke these conspiracy
Report Abuse
Posted By: BubbaGump Post Date: 07/06/09 04:21:00 PM
Title: I forgot my tinfoil hat.
Okay, here is one for the tinfoil hat club and their two inches of dust theory. Did he go
there and see the two inches of dust?
I went to the site, and saw a pile 10 to stories tall of rubble plus all the stuff in the
basmement that was 10 acres across. Why doesn't the gazette do at least a cursory
examination of the facts.
Maybe Ras is in the tinfoil hat club, and this whackjob is the president. I wander if
that is a conspiracy??????????????????????????????
Report Abuse
Posted By: Cecil Sneb Post Date: 07/06/09 04:20:00 PM
Title: Probability
Those with cutting torch experience would probably agree with the findings given that
thousands of gallons of pre-ignited aviation fuel pouring down the elevator shafts almost
instantly heated the steel beyond its critical compression strength causing the rapid
failure and further igniting the consuming fire.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Deuce Varange Post Date: 07/06/09 04:12:00 PM
Title: Ctiger
Wow, that is impressive!! You must be proud of them. And thanks, people like you make it
worthwhile.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Farmer Post Date: 07/06/09 04:09:00 PM
Title: Popular Mechanics
I did read PM back in 8th grade where all the experts got their information. I wonder how
much PM was subsidized to put out it's report that airplanes could bring
down the Trade Center Towers in free fall along with Building 7 that an airplane didn't
hit, in their own footprint no less. It really takes a genius to come up with an answer
for that one. All you have to do is read PM and the 911 Commission Report and all your
questions are answered, and scientific investigation that proves otherwise means nothing.
For all you patriotic Americans that can be led over a cliff because that is what you
were told to do, should check this site about other patriotic Americans who aren't so
quick to agree with PM.
http://patriotsquestion911.com/
Now to wait for the name calling from small minds.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Blazin Hawk Post Date: 07/06/09 04:03:00 PM
Title: Andrew Johnson writes
That judy woods is a reputable gal. She is a moonbat along with the rest of the 9/11
Truthers...she literally believes this:
"Dr. Judy Wood is the lone ’scientific’ pillar behind the theory that directed energy
beams demolished the world trade center towers. Dr. Greg Jenkins, a physicist, poses a
few simple questions to Dr. Wood regarding her research. The full interview was left
uncut to allow the viewer to fully and accurately assess the credibility of Dr. Judy Wood
and her work."
I'll bite though...what really happened, truthers? In your opinions...
http://instapinch.com/?p=307
Report Abuse
Posted By: Adam in Miami Post Date: 07/06/09 04:03:00 PM
Title: It's a conspiracy!
The funny thing about all this, is it's kind of entertaining.. Just reading the tinfoil
hat theories make me laugh. Here's what I ask, since this was an inside job. Why isn't
Obama saying anything about it, he must have access some of the information? Maybe he's
part of it too!
.
Wait a minute... Bohemian grove - Project for new American Century - Dick Cheney - George
Bush - Al Qaeda - Osama Bin Laden - Saddam Hussein - Barrack Hussein Obama!
.
All you have to do is change the “s” in Osama to a “b” and take Saddam’s last name, and
you have Barrack “Hussein Obama”!! THAT EXPLAINS IT! It’s so simple!!!
.
I can't believe you people can't see it!!!!
Report Abuse
Posted By: ctiger Post Date: 07/06/09 04:01:00 PM
Title: Deuce
They have been home safe for a while, and one was awarded the sleeve patch that only a
few have gotten in Tikrit, and also the Bronze Star.
I am proud of them, and of you.
Report Abuse
Posted By: aj - Post Date: 07/06/09 04:00:00 PM
Title: so research
so research is him wasting 500 hours of his time jerking it on the internet. great. i
should be an EXPERT in Asian culture then. dirty girls.
Report Abuse
Posted By: TD Post Date: 07/06/09 04:00:00 PM
Title: Amazing...
So many people including Russell have so much time to comment and "research" this subject
which clearly has been explained satisfactorily to the vast majority of the public who
are able to rationalize scientific evidence.
-
OMG! Enough said.
Report Abuse
Posted By: aj - Post Date: 07/06/09 03:59:00 PM
Title: so research
so research is him wasting 500 hours of his time jerking it on the internet. great. i
should be an EXPERT in Asian porn then.
Report Abuse
Posted By: OneVoice Post Date: 07/06/09 03:54:00 PM
Title: My two cents
I'm with whoever mentioned Occam's Razor (waaaay down there somewhere!). How likely is it
that the government, in all it's bipartisan, checks-and-balances, bureaucratic glory,
could get it's act together to the extent necessary to plan, realize, and continue to
cover up the whole shebang? Or even just to cover it up, if some other group was
responsible.
.
Far more likely, I'd think, that a smaller group of people with the same beliefs and
goals coordinated hijacking planes to fly into buildings.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Deuce Varange Post Date: 07/06/09 03:52:00 PM
Title: Ctiger
Let me elaborate on my earlier post. I meant to call our government/leaders hypocrites. I
was not referring to the American public at large and certainly not to our troops. I also
served in Iraq and I can assure you that it was not for any politician. I think the
majority of common folk love this country. I just don't think most realize how their
leaders exploit it. I hope your sons or daughters are home safe soon.
Freedom of expression is a beautiful thing, despite hacks like Steve Barry who amuse
themselves with simple-minded comments/personal attacks. The difference is that we don't
get mad about it. Ideas built upon logic and reason are impervious to such feeble
attacks. It's too bad they don't take a similar approach- maybe they wouldn't be so
insecure. There's no good reason to be upset by this research. Maybe some people feel
they are losing their security blanket (and react like children)when they hear the
possibility of their government having part in an atrocity.
Report Abuse
Posted By: aaron saylor Post Date: 07/06/09 03:31:00 PM
Title: Take care with paper's credibility
I am troubled by the gazette's posting this. There are two potential stories: 1. Area man
believes 9/11 is secret government weapon, or 2. 9/11 was actually secret government
weapon.
The first is not newsworthy, and the second would take the investigative journalism that
I come to the Gazette for. By posting this as a story, with a provocative headline you
lend credibility to an idea which you have not fully researched or developed.
If this is an argument that Rasdal or the gazette considers credible, then I challenge
you to investigate, find out what is credible, and come back with an actual story.
If the gazette's intention is simply to put up provacative blog posts, then please
differentiate your branding. There have been several articles recently which have had
this similar one side of the story feel with no judgement or counterpoint. I understand
that the Gazzette needs to generate an enormous amount of content and that there will
need to be some experimentation with quality control. Please slap a different label on
these stories.
Report Abuse
Posted By: ctiger Post Date: 07/06/09 03:30:00 PM
Title: Deuce
I find myself once again agreeing with you, except for your statements on nationalism and
about patriots being hypocrites.
When my children re-upped after 9/11 they ended up in Iraq instead of Afghanistan where
they had wanted to be.
They did what they did there not for any politicians, but for all the people. Our loyalty
to this country is for the citizens, even Steve Barry and his right to call me a douche
bag.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Deuce Varange Post Date: 07/06/09 03:30:00 PM
Title: Russ Gerst
Well-said, Patricia. Bravo, I agree completely.
I don't understand why so many people are angry about this man's research. Be cattle if
you want to and suck up whatever the media puts in your trough, but don't insult people
who have the fortitude to verify information and seek truth for themselves- from UNBIASED
sources. If you are that passionate about it, why don't you refute his evidence? Show him
and Ms. Wood where their math/reasoning is wrong. I'm guessing you all cannot and find it
easier to criticize than engage in thoughtful conversation.
Report Abuse
Posted By: question Post Date: 07/06/09 03:27:00 PM
Title: Think
No one has said Bin Laden was not involved. The questions are deeper than that. A lot of
money has been made by a lot of people. Put options yes possible by Bin Laden and much
more. Glade to see you are asking for answers to a question. Should you be called a name..
Report Abuse
Posted By: BobInIowa Post Date: 07/06/09 03:24:00 PM
Title: Roswell
is in New Mexico. Wow.
Report Abuse
Posted By: J M Post Date: 07/06/09 03:16:00 PM
Title: 9/11
I'm dismayed with the punctuation and spelling used by the geniuses that believe such
junk. I think they'd be better off wondering about the motives of Obama!!!
Report Abuse
Posted By: question Post Date: 07/06/09 03:07:00 PM
Title: Please leave
This message board is removing a lot of name callers and angry people for the Gazette.
Hopfully for good, no gain in reading just one sentence about a topic and having absolute
knowledge. Name calling says a lot about the person doing the put downs. Low self respect
to not research for intellegent responces. Good bye angree people, move on if you know
how to.... I am mad and going to quit ha ha
Report Abuse
Posted By: SolPack Post Date: 07/06/09 03:01:00 PM
Title: hard to believe
It is hard enough to believe we have a conspiracy theory ***** ball living here in CR. It
is really hard to understand how many here are buying into the nut case and his far
fetched crazy ideas.
What do you guys go out to Roswell AZ. for summer time conventions to look for space
aliens too ?
Report Abuse
Posted By: Steve Barry Post Date: 07/06/09 02:59:00 PM
Title: BY THE WAY
If you fools really need evidence....why dont you look into the investments Osama Bin
Laden made right before the attacks.
GET A BRAIN PEOPLE!!!!
Report Abuse
Posted By: PATRICIA EHLER Post Date: 07/06/09 02:59:00 PM
Title: Russ Gerst is no nutjob
I have known Russ for a number of years. I have always found him to be an intelligent,
reasonable person. I'm appalled that so many commenters here find it necessary to vilify
someone who has the nerve to question our government. "We disagree with him, so let's
call him names." Grow up!
When is it ever wrong to question our government? That great patriot, Thomas Jefferson,
said, "Reason and free inquiry are the only effectual agents against error." We have the
right, no, rather the duty, to question our leaders. If Russ has given this 500 hours of
study, that's 499 more than most people have spent on it. You may not agree with him, but
give him some credit for being sincerely concerned about the state of our country.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Steve Barry Post Date: 07/06/09 02:57:00 PM
Title: Chris....
Sounds like youre the nutjob.....were you there? Do you have some sort of degree in
anything but being an idiot? If not whats the point even discussing this ****? The
buildings are down, the people are dead, bush is out of office.
Its douchebags like you who have no life that feel a need to whine and challenge common
knowledge and authority.....BECAUSE YOU HAVE NONE OF EITHER.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Deuce Varange Post Date: 07/06/09 02:56:00 PM
Title: Naive
Why do so many of you give our government/leaders so much credit?? I'm sorry to break it
to those who are unaware, but your leaders care absolutely NOTHING for you. All they want
is your labor, your money, and your obedience. I'm sick of these hypocrites talking about
patriotism. Nationalism died and they replaced it with globalism. These capitalist
leaders will invest their money wherever there is the greatest return (low risk is
preferred as well). They would let American families starve and rot if they could profit
off it.
I'm not saying I'm convinced at this point that there was government involvement, but I
certainly wouldn't put it beneath them. The American government has been guilty of some
scandalous deeds throughout our history. What's wrong with taking a look at scientific
claims? If there is no substance to it, surely it will be refuted. I look forward to
checking out some of these references on the matter. Critical thinking is a lost art.
Turn off the tv, people, and start using your noodles.
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Posted By: aj - Post Date: 07/06/09 02:54:00 PM
Title: disappointed
russ is an ass, and the gazette stinks for printing up this garbage. im done reading this
tabloid newspaper
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Posted By: question Post Date: 07/06/09 02:51:00 PM
Title: Respect
It is disrespectful to all the survivors and family to except the failure to answer
questions that the family members have.
The conspiracy is what the 9/11 commission has presented. The family of the Cantor group
have been questioning the report from day one.
There is a pettion to help the family of the survivors to reopen the case. The family
survivors need to be respected and heard. Sitting back and giving quick judgements of who
owns respect is a easy response to validate your opinion.
The reopening will digg for the truth and answer questions. I would respect the dead by
not covering up and avoiding evidence to the contrary of the 9/11 report.
Help your friend rest in peace. Don't we search for the truth after a murder.
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Posted By: wilson picket Post Date: 07/06/09 02:50:00 PM
Title: Psychoses 'R' Us
I'm thinking maybe 9/11 was all started by an errant shot from the grassy knoll in Dallas
that's been bouncing around the atmosphere since '63. Probably hit the jet that hit the
Twin Towers that hit these nut jobs in the head. Jeesh...what a gaggle of loons!
Report Abuse
Posted By: LindaA Post Date: 07/06/09 02:31:00 PM
Title: When the 1st plane hit
When the first plane hit, the man sitting next to me was on the phone with a trader at
Cantor Fitzgerald. He said there had been an explosion at the WTC. We checked CNN and
they had nothing, so we assumed the explosion was nothing. Soon enough, there was plenty
of coverage. This man made it to the roof of the WTC, where he came down with the
building. I find it disrespectful to all of those lost to come up with some off the wall
conspiracy theory.
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Posted By: Chris Post Date: 07/06/09 02:14:00 PM
Title: I wonder...
For those of you who are calling those who question the official account of 9/11
"whackos", "nutjobs", etc: how many of you believe in a magical man in the sky who
mystically impregnated some lady with his magical man-baby, who then grew up and then had
to die and come back to life so that everyone who believes in him can go join the magical
man in the sky when they die?
Stones in glass houses, people. Stones in glass houses.
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Posted By: Gee **** Post Date: 07/06/09 02:08:00 PM
Title: nuttin' but a jar of mixed nuts
wacka dacka doo!
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Posted By: Bob Johnson Post Date: 07/06/09 02:05:00 PM
Title: Like I said
Calling names is not the way. However this article could've been taken a little more
seriously if the author and the interviewee didn't mention anything about hurricanes
being controlled by the government. People wonder why conspiracy theories aren't always
looked upon as very creditable or believable when wild claims like this are thrown in
there too. To the common person, claims of government cover-ups, the government lying,
etc are entirely feasable and are documented. But to expect the common person to take
claims of this nature seriously, then throw in weather controlling devices changing the
course of a hurricane is sure idiocy. This mind you happened before Hurricane Katrina?!
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Posted By: AshleyW Post Date: 07/06/09 02:04:00 PM
Title: Thank you, Gazette..
for finally publishing something that put me over the edge enough to stop reading and
cancel my subscription.
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Posted By: question Post Date: 07/06/09 02:03:00 PM
Title: Small
Anger, I don't know how to cope......Anger, Anger. Don't think do as I yell at you to
do.... Anger. Call some more names and then puff up!!!! So small but Angree
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Posted By: Andrew Johnson Post Date: 07/06/09 02:03:00 PM
Title: Evidence, not Theory
Popular Mechanics did not debunk Dr. Wood's evidence. True evidence
cannot be debunked. Dr. Wood does not present "theories," only
evidence. Here is a partial list of evidence that must be explained:
http://drjudywood.com/wtc
Popular Mechanics does not explain this evidence.
The NIST report does not explain this evidence, either, and this is
why Dr. Wood filed a Request for Corrections with NIST. This
included notifying NIST of a conflict of interest with one or more of
their contractors as being developers and and manufacturers of
Directed Energy Weapons.
http://drjudywood.com/articles/NIST/Qui_Tam_Wood.html
http://www.prlog.org/10260429-911-qui-tam-case-will-have-its-day-in-court.html
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Posted By: spiderone Post Date: 07/06/09 02:01:00 PM
Title: 9-11
I was going to write a reply to the article but the door bell rang
and Elvis and the Easter bunny were there selling travel plans to the
Bermuda Triangle. Then I got a call from Roswell saying another
alien escaped from his cage and the Air Force is ******. By the
way when they landed on the moon,the space capsule got stuck
in green cheese. I wish these conspiracy people would get a life.
too many bad acid trips will cost you.
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Posted By: Steve Barry Post Date: 07/06/09 01:50:00 PM
Title: CTIGER in disguise!!!
You're way to obvious....when you say right wing you mean right as in correct? If that is
the case than I applaud you....I think thats what they call a moment of clarity lol
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Posted By: Steve Barry Post Date: 07/06/09 01:41:00 PM
Title: WOW
I only read a few lines of this article....its obvious the Gazette wants to be a
newspaper for idiots and douchbags that do nothing but **** and moan. LMAO!!!!
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Posted By: question Post Date: 07/06/09 01:36:00 PM
Title: Anger I am right not you
To ask questions and search for answers and stay on topic. I hope people question and
open there eyes to different opinions and not follow the leader .The right wing are
trying there bulling name calling as displayed in this message board. When you show your
anger you lose.....
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Posted By: Tyree Campbell Post Date: 07/06/09 01:25:00 PM
Title: Michael Jackson Update
BUBBLES COMMITS SUTTEE! FILM AT 11.
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Posted By: BobInIowa Post Date: 07/06/09 01:23:00 PM
Title: Kooks are kooks
Are these the same people that try to dispell moon landings and have Palin 2112 signs?
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Posted By: Blazin Hawk Post Date: 07/06/09 01:12:00 PM
Title: Another good site...
http://www.ae911truth.info
This destroys many of the arguments from the 9/11 "truthers". If Dave Rasdal was even a
tad bit interested in the truth he would have done a brief perusal of the internet and
realized there was no story at all here...
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Posted By: Blazin Hawk Post Date: 07/06/09 01:09:00 PM
Title: Good Lord...
The idiocy today is astounding...
"PM was debunked too. Ill get back to this after work"
ROTFLMAO! By whom? Some whackjob on the left, where inevitably most of these conspiracies
about 9/11 spring from? Do tell.
It's real simple folks...the link has been provided to PM. They use experts in the field
as was already spelled out. You have an issue with the official truth, then post what PM
says about it and try and refute it. ******.
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Posted By: travel123 Post Date: 07/06/09 12:52:00 PM
Title: Spelling
I have to be fast with my responses and how do you use spell check in this posting...
sorry try to get the measage Thank You
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Posted By: brent Post Date: 07/06/09 12:48:00 PM
Title: uggg
Must be a SLOOOOOW day at the Gazette newsroom!
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Posted By: travel123 Post Date: 07/06/09 12:41:00 PM
Title: Debunk PM is easy
Popular Mechanics is hardly a sourse of absolute knowledge.
Many Building Architects including the designers of the towers know that a plane could
not take the towers down. When a building collapses there should be people, desks, filing
cabnets and floor after floor of steel rebar and cement floors setting on top of each
other.
Go look at a bridge overpass of the largest size and the steel for the bridge will still
be considerable thinner and smaller than the 48 steel beams used for the interior core of
the towers. They also will not be wraped with 3" steel plating as the core collums were.
Popular Mechanics completely leaves out of there sloppy diagnoses that there was a center
core. 48 colums 52"deep incased in 3" steel welded plates wrapped around the colums.
Look at any steel structure and use a tape measure to get an idea the dementions of just
one collme. Popular Mechanics was not an investigation. The floors were not trusses as
the PM says. they were steel beams welded and bolted a fire would not bring the floors to
a collapse. The building has had fires .
Why was the basement blown up and the steel colums in the basement cut at 45 degree
angles. these are the core colums. It is a provine fact that thermate was used in the
destruction of the towers. I dare you to look at the footage of Building 7 emplotion on
its footing into the basement exatly as building demolition contractor do...
The consperice is that the three building feel
Never before has a steel building failed to the degree of exploding ever before from a 1
hour fire. Try and think with a fire melting the steel of that size. The steel would not
explode out 600' with out bombs just as the Firemen have said. Look at the tapes it was a
inside job.
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Posted By: Vanessa Smith Post Date: 07/06/09 12:40:00 PM
Title: whether you believe this ideas or not....
I do not think that Mr. Gerst is searching for attention etc. He is actually from my
hometown of Mediapolis...he was in my older brother's class. He was one of the top
students in their class. Being from a small town we generally believe our government and
are very patriotic folks...but I do think he made some points that made sense. Whether he
is right or wrong...great thing about our country....we are allowed to question our
goverment and spend our own time/money researching something that changed our American
history forever. I applaud him looking for the truth...would love to hear if any updates
occur on this story.
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Posted By: Bob Johnson Post Date: 07/06/09 12:31:00 PM
Title: Farmer
Uneducated? I'm not sure where you draw that information from. I agree the name calling
is a bit juvenile but it definitely can come from all sides, making all engaged in it
sound like an arse.
.
Bottom line people are going to believe what they want to believe. Whether that's from
scientific analysis from trained and educated experts in numerous fields who were the
dirty boots on the ground examining the evidence from the crime scene. Or from folks who
pour through various articles, data, etc and take glints of bits and pieces of
information, sometimes distorting or misquoting it, then package it as the truth of a
larger conspiracy.
.
The that the attacks were just that, attacks by terrorists linked to Al-Queda who were
solely responsible for 9-11. Their method was to turn civilian aircraft into guided
missles to target landmarks of our country's military and economic power. And to spread
their particular message of fear and hatred of the US and the West. They are able to keep
their agenda going, though unintentionally I suspect, by turning Americans against each
other debating about the validity of the attacks and who's responsible for them. Who are
we allowing to win here, Al Queda?
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Posted By: C H Post Date: 07/06/09 12:24:00 PM
Title: So, I took the time to read the PM article
Nearly every fact expressed in this Gazette article is refutted by the PM article.
.
I find it interesting that although PM states they "...consulted more than 300 experts
and organizations..." while conducting their investigation, most, if not all, are
government entities or are contracted by a government entity. Doesn't that fact in itself
make this article very subjective rather than objective?
.
I don't have an opinion either way because at this point it doesn't matter. However,
people who believe it cannot happen again are very naive. Whether by terrorists or our
government.
.
If it was an inside job by our government, what did/does the US expect to gain by killing
thousands of people? Can someone explain that to me?
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Posted By: SolPack Post Date: 07/06/09 12:14:00 PM
Title: Joe--Russ
Did you two go to the same conservancy theory school? what is your opinion about Elvis is
he still alive ? Did man really land on the moon ? Was Perl Harbor really bombed or was
that bush's fault too ?
Hey maybe Space men from Mars bombed Perl harbor? I'm sure some of your nutty friends
have all kinds of ideas about how the US government have space ships from who knows where
hidden away in Nevada too !!!
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Posted By: BubbaGump Post Date: 07/06/09 12:11:00 PM
Title: Filth
This is absolute filth. Each person is entitled to their opinion, but the Gazette does
not have to give voice to every whack job "researcher" out there.
These people are no better than Holocaust deniers, and giving them space in the paper
disgraces the memory of everyone that died that day.
Go crawl under a rock and play with your star wars costumes.
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Posted By: Joe Stem Post Date: 07/06/09 12:03:00 PM
Title: Blazin
PM was debunked too. Ill get back to this after work:]
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Posted By: Jane Doe Post Date: 07/06/09 11:52:00 AM
Title: Some basic explanations using basic physics
Oh, geez, trying to call non-conspiracy theorists uneducated?
I've taken only basic classes in physics and I can tell you that these claims are very
poorly formed.
The 8 second fall? This can be explained by mentioning that the tower collapsed from a
point near the TOP of the building, and not from the BOTTOM. The weight from the
collapsing top accelerated the collapse of the rest of the building.
The plane didn't come out on the other side because of the sheer density of the concrete
and steel in the building, which exhibited a reactive force that crumpled the front of
the plane.
The towers collapsed cleanly by DESIGN. When designing large buildings, they not only
have to be sturdy but they also need to collapse cleanly so that in case of need for
demolition, or if a bomb or plane hits, other buildings aren't damaged.
The dust? Combine the reactive force and the point of the collapse to show that there was
ENORMOUS force on the structure, enough to smash it into smithereens.
Pataki could likely walk on ground zero safely because there was so much debris that it
likely snuffed out the fire. Also, using the elementary laws of heat transfer, the amount
of cool debris balanced with the relatively small amount of very hot debris to create an
only slightly warm environment.
The hurricane is coincidental. Weather is unpredictable, as us Iowans know.
And yes, read this: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html
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Posted By: Blazin Hawk Post Date: 07/06/09 11:35:00 AM
Title: Smart Farmer...
Read the Popular Mechanics article like I have suggested to many here and get back with
me...
Whacko...lol
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Posted By: Farmer Post Date: 07/06/09 11:21:00 AM
Title: The Uneducated
By reading the comments on the story above, it seems like the naysayers have a maximum
8th grade education. They can't disagree without name calling (wacko, nutcase, etc.). I
must have missed it, but I never read anything about JFK or the moonlanding in the entire
article. My guess is they are too lazy or dumb to do any research on their own. Just
leave it to the 911 commission to tell us what happened.
On the otherhand, those that agree seem to have a high level of intelligence. My guess is
they have their doubts about the official explanation and have done their own research
and have come to the conclusion that we have been lied to.
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Posted By: Jonathan D Post Date: 07/06/09 11:18:00 AM
Title: re:
Conspiracy theorists seem to believe that anyone that says anything contradictory to a
conspiracy theory has either been paid, threatened, or brainwashed by the federal
government and therefore isn't credible. Its the same way a bible banger believes that
anyone that questions christianity is under the influence of satan and therefore isn't
credible. I see a very strong parallel in behavior there.
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Posted By: 38395 Post Date: 07/06/09 11:16:00 AM
Title: youtube.
So video.google.com or youtube.com If you have an open mind I suggest watching the
zeitgeist documentary. It not only covers this, but other terrorism and also the church
and the federal reserve. If you watch prepare to be upset with everyone. It will
definitely open your eyes though. Good documentary regardless.
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Posted By: Bob Johnson Post Date: 07/06/09 11:15:00 AM
Title: Well
The article itself is definitely going towards the weekly wipe that gets put right next
to the check out aisle at the grocery store IMO. I'm not really sure the Gazette's
intentions about putting this out there, what's next?
.
I read the article and what really discredits someone and their theories is when they
start talking about weather control of hurricanes. Come on. This is the same sci-fi stuff
that Richard Hoagland puts out about Hyperdimensional physics. The same group of people
will argue whether we landed on the moon or not, but in the next breath will claim that
we can control hurricanes and other phenomena.
.
Its funny how eyewitness accounts are quoted so often by people, but yet are often the
most unreliable. Given stress levels and the utter chaos surrounding the attacks, people
hear, see, and feel things that may not be entirely accurate. Accounts of people not
hearing the second jet coming into the other tower can be easily explained as a result of
tunnel vision which can also block or impair other senses into ignoring what's occurring
around them. Yet video clearly shows the second plane flying over the city and crashing
into the tower.
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Posted By: Blazin Hawk Post Date: 07/06/09 11:15:00 AM
Title: Melisa...
"Don't give up, there are many of us who still have questions and want answers."
Please read the original link rom Popular Mechanics, then come back with any other
questions you may have.
And Joe Stem...good Lord. At least Popular Mechanics has credibility. Don't bring fringe,
fanatical website links here if you expect to be taken seriously...I will refer you to
the PM article linked as well. Any questions after that?
Report Abuse
Posted By: travel123 Post Date: 07/06/09 11:11:00 AM
Title: Lynn
In defense of defence where is the speel check I could not find it and I'm sure there is
a way to access it. Please tell me..... Thanks Notice speel
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Posted By: Cindy Piester Post Date: 07/06/09 11:09:00 AM
Title: 911 Confessions based on torture
My Fellow Americans, the 911 Commission Report was largely based on the confessions of
three men: Khalid Sheik Mohammed, Zubaydah, and Al Nasheri. The torture they underwent
yielded confessions that gave the Bush Administration cover for 911 and justification for
obliterating Iraq.
See: Dr. David Ray Griffin :9/11 Contradictions at:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3319032398046778047
Also, this compelling leaked International Committee Red Cross Report on the torture they
and others received:http://www.nybooks.com/icrc-report.pdf
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Posted By: Andrew Leonard Post Date: 07/06/09 11:09:00 AM
Title: Absolute rot
"Why did Hurricane Erin mysteriously turn away just before the collapse?" I don't know,
Gazette, why did you hire this reporter and print this pap?
I guess it could be worse - you could have called him a "known lesbian". But surely a
reputable paper in this century wouldn't ... oh, wait.
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Posted By: Ann Onamouse Post Date: 07/06/09 11:02:00 AM
Title: The only kooks I see
are those who blindly trust the government, and honestly believe that they could not be
complicit in such an horrific act.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Joe Stem Post Date: 07/06/09 10:44:00 AM
Title: Kooks??
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041026093059633
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Posted By: SolPack Post Date: 07/06/09 10:35:00 AM
Title: sad sad what this paper is putting out
It is very sad to see the gazette turn into the National inquirer. What is next, men from
Mars caused the bad economy ? Or maybe the cover up of the moon landing ? Has your nut
case looked into that yet?
everything can be seconded guessed from these conspiracy theory Waco's !!!
The sad and sick thing is that the Cedar Rapids Gazette would even consider running
something that from one of these type sick of conspiracy theory kook's.
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Posted By: flip . Post Date: 07/06/09 10:34:00 AM
Title: 9/11
Google "Project For A New American Century",then look who signed it. These people state
that they need something big,like Pearl Harbor,to get the great industrial military
complex going on. But then I seriously doubt that any of you people going on about
theory's will pull yourself out of your matrix long enough to read it. Having and
independent thought of your own would be too taxing on your brain. If you did, you would
realize that, we never landed on the moon,Kennedy was,in fact, shot by a man behind the
grassy knoll,and 9-11 was without any doubt,and inside job.
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Posted By: LYNN SAMPSON Post Date: 07/06/09 10:18:00 AM
Title: hey rick
the word is spelled defense not defence where is the spell check
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Posted By: Joe Stem Post Date: 07/06/09 10:16:00 AM
Title: We can do this all day
National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
The muscle hijackers 'picked by bin Ladin':
Satam al Suqami, Wail and Waleed al Shehri (two brothers) Both Alive, Abdul Aziz al Omari
Alive, Fayez Banihammad (from the UAE), Ahmed al Ghamdi, Hamza al Ghamdi, Mohand al
Shehri Alive, Saeed al Ghamdi Alive, Ahmad al Haznawi, Ahmed al Nami Alive, Majed Moqed,
and Salem al Hazmi Alive (the brother of Nawaf al Hazmi).
How can the 9/11 Commission be taken seriously when they refer to alive 'hijackers'?
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/hijackers.html
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Posted By: DW Post Date: 07/06/09 10:11:00 AM
Title: Al-Qaeda
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a090192ajaj
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Posted By: Melisa Post Date: 07/06/09 10:07:00 AM
Title: Thank you Mr. Gerst
I would like to thank you for what you are doing. Please do not be discouraged by the
negative comments, they are coming from people with very closed minds who are clearly
afraid.
"Close-minded people are very certain and dogmatic in their views, and generally believe
that there is a single correct point of view," said study researcher Dolores Albarracin,
a psychology professor at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. "The
implication is that you have a group of people who would only seek to confirm their
points of view, resisting all evidence to the contrary via avoidance of exposure."
This article has given myself and many others more to think about and research. Unlike
those who follow like sheep, there are some who question the events of that tragic day,
along with many other events in history. It is called research and investigation.....it
is what keeps man moving forward. Don't give up, there are many of us who still have
questions and want answers.
Report Abuse
Posted By: liveinlinncounty Post Date: 07/06/09 10:06:00 AM
Title: WTC Theory
Lives were lost and a country devastated, and the who's and whats don't really matter . .
.you can't change what has already happened . . . anymore than you can control it
happening again . . . it is what it is. There are evil people in this world . .
Report Abuse
Posted By: Joe Stem Post Date: 07/06/09 09:48:00 AM
Title: ?
Who's they??
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Posted By: DW Post Date: 07/06/09 09:42:00 AM
Title: Joe
And dont forget they originally did it in 1992! I bet that didnt happen either.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Joe Stem Post Date: 07/06/09 09:29:00 AM
Title: wow
Let see..... We can spend billions..um...trillions... on defence, and
foreigners..um...terrorist... can walk on planes, and run them into towers???Thats after
we were warned by many countrys, right before it happen??
What blind people
Report Abuse
Posted By: DW Post Date: 07/06/09 09:20:00 AM
Title: 911 conspiracy theorists
I sure hope the families who lost loved ones in that cowardly act of ... oh wait ... "man
made disaster" can look you up. Im sure they would like to have a word with you about how
it never happened.
Really?!? The government cant cover-up a simple break in .... but they can purpertrate a
massive scale one like that? I bet you also believe the moon landing never took place
either. SHEESH!
Report Abuse
Posted By: Owen Harper Post Date: 07/06/09 09:17:00 AM
Title: travel123
You present the favourite argument of conspiracy theorists everywhere, "If I wasn't on to
something they wouldn't be so upset."
.
Just remember: They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they
also laughed at Bozo the Clown. - Carl Sagan
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Posted By: Hugs4u Post Date: 07/06/09 09:14:00 AM
Title: simple truth
The simple truth is GW needed 9/11 to take peoples minds off that his brother and him
stole the election.
Report Abuse
http://www.gazetteonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090706/NEWS/707069946/1002/NEWS
Updated July 06. 2009 11:26AM
Did we really see what we thought we saw on 9/11?
By Dave Rasdal
The Gazette
dave.rasdal@gazettecommunications.com
Photo
(Dave Rasdal/The Gazette)
Russ Gerst of Cedar Rapids questions official findings of the Sept. 11, 2001, collapse of
the World Trade Center in New York City.
Like the rest of us on Sept. 11, 2001, Russ Gerst stared in awe as the World Trade Center
in New York City collapsed into dust.
But now, like only a handful of onlookers, Russ wonders how the Twin Towers crumbled so
quickly and so completely. He questions the validity of the National Institute of
Standards and Technology report of 2005. He thinks mysterious powers were at work. He’s
afraid of what occurred and what could transpire next.
“We’ve got to figure out what happened,” says Russ, 42, of Cedar Rapids. “We can’t listen
to the adults. They’ve already looked at it and say nothing (unusual) happened.”
To be sure, this is a complicated matter that can’t be fully explained in a column like
this or in a two-hour presentation/question/answer session I had with Russ. But, as you
listen to Russ and see supporting data, you can’t help but shake your head. A lot of
“facts” don’t add up, primary among them:
The speed of collapse. One video shows a building collapse in 8 seconds, which defies the
laws of physics. Gravitational pull would require 9.2 seconds. The resistance of concrete
and steel would at least double that.
The volume of debris. Sure, dust floated everywhere, indicating the buildings were
pulverized. But that doesn’t explain how most of the concrete and steel from a 110-story
building could become two or three inches of dust on the ground.
For years after 9/11, Russ didn’t think much about it. The Oakville native applied his
Coe College accounting degree as a financial analyst with Meredith Corp. in Des Moines.
He helped his wife raise their four children, telecommuting from Cedar Rapids starting in
2000 when his wife got a job at AEGON.
Then, Russ saw a Web site that raised plenty of 9/11 questions. Since then, his
fascination has transformed into an obsession. He’s spent 500 hours reading and
researching it the last three years.
Fueling Russ’ interest is his association with physicist Judy Wood, who has challenged
the official findings. She appeared at a national hearing last month in New York City.
Wood, a former mechanical engineering professor at Clemson University, examined thousands
of photographs and videos of the tragedy from every possible angle. She applied her
knowledge to the physical evidence, letting that determine her findings, Russ says.
As you’d expect, other scholars have challenged Wood’s theories. But Russ is not about to
give up, having assembled 25 of her slides into his own presentation, which he’s willing
to share with anyone who has interest.
As Russ talks, you wonder along with him. If an airplane crashed into the tower with
enough force to bring it down, why didn’t the plane come out the other side? How could
the towers collapse so cleanly, spreading only minimal debris over nearby undamaged
buildings? If underground fire contributed to the destruction, how could people like Gov.
George Pataki walk on the debris without getting burned? Why did Hurricane Erin
mysteriously turn away just before the collapse?
The only explanation, Russ says, is that we didn’t see what we thought we saw. That
somehow, someone harnessed energy and directed it to virtually vaporize the World Trade
Center for reasons ranging from terrorism to financial gain.
“What it leads you back to is there is the technology,” Russ says, “and somebody has come
up with it.”
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Posted By: PS2K Post Date: 07/06/09 08:27:00 PM
Title: question
Interesting criticism. Thanks for making my point for me.
Report Abuse
Posted By: GR Post Date: 07/06/09 08:15:00 PM
Title: Bye IZA
If the Gazette only printed stories that IZA approved of, they would risk losing more
than just one reader. Bye Bye IZA, we'll keep reading with or without you!
Report Abuse
Posted By: question Post Date: 07/06/09 08:06:00 PM
Title: Wow
Very interesting on no molten metal. I did see the live feed and tape on u-tube of metal
melting and dripping down the exterior of the towers. Thermite is in the dust that was at
ground zero. I feel you are a lot too sure of your self. Can your opinon and findings be
questioned or will you yell louder to make me believe your views. What did Lenin say
about questioning authority, you die...
Report Abuse
Posted By: Christopher Coty Post Date: 07/06/09 08:04:00 PM
Title: THX FARMER
… for your reasonable thoughts and comments regarding Popular Mechanics and just one of
many other websites offering alternative views to the 911 Comission and “official”
government reports.
I wasn’t familiar with Patriots Question
http://patriotsquestion911.com/
It includes the testimony, eyewitness accounts, reports and theories of the following
groups of people:
190+ Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement
670+ Engineers and Architects
200+ Pilots and Aviation Professionals
400+ Professors Question 9/11
230+ 9/11 Survivors and Family Members
200+ Artists, Entertainers, and Media Professionals
I’m wondering if all these people are all wacko’s and nut jobs, too.
Great article, keep up the good work.
Report Abuse
Posted By: CB Brooklyn Post Date: 07/06/09 07:54:00 PM
Title: What most people don't understand...
The 9/11 coverup perpetrators are controlling the "truth movement" by planting propaganda.
Vladimir Lenin, the first Communist dictator after the takeover of Russia in 1917, is
widely credited with the following quotation, "The best way to control the opposition is
to lead it ourselves."
Molten metal is just one example of the planted propaganda. There was NO molten metal at
Ground Zero.... if there was, there would have been enormous steam explosions with all
the rain and water from the fire department. There were NO steam explosions, hence there
was no molten metal. The carefully planted molten metal propaganda has been fully
dissected here:
WTC Molten Metal: Fact or Fiction?
http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=91&Itemid=60
For full information on what's going on, see the following article:
9/11: Distinguishing The Propaganda From The Smoking Guns
http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=199&Itemid=60
Report Abuse
Posted By: grump Post Date: 07/06/09 07:42:00 PM
Title: Glad this didn't happen in CR
I wonder if NYC hired a consultant at $425 per hour to study this Twin Towers issue like
a city I know of might have done.
Perhaps even hire a Twin Towers Czar or CEO .Possibly fund his salary through a LOST type
tax gouge.
If so, I'm sure this issue would have been put to rest a long time ago.
Or maybe not.
Was Rudy ever caught sleeping in meetings through all this 9-11 "stuff"?
Report Abuse
Posted By: question Post Date: 07/06/09 07:38:00 PM
Title: no logic
ps2k has digressed. He is above all debate and can see clearly what others can not. Ho um
go down the middle of the road you can feel a notch above the discussion and always be
right. I was taught that go with the flow never make a mistake, always knowing more but
can not take a stance is a noddle back person. no spine
Report Abuse
Posted By: PS2K Post Date: 07/06/09 07:22:00 PM
Title: facts, evidence and logic
After reading the article and most of the comments, I am reminded of what my Grandfather
told me almost 50 years ago regarding the Kennedy assination. "Believe none of what you
read and only half of what you see". I am sure he is the originator of the advice, but he
is the one that shared it with me.
No matter what any of us might think about the report or the various and sundry theories
(and theories they must remain) they are good fodder for intense debate and conversation
among conspiracy theorists and governmental apologists both.
History has proven time and again that facts can be quite subjective. The victors write
the history and decide what "facts" they want us to have...but I digress.
It has been very entertaining to read the comments, far more so than the article itself.
Personally, I don't place much stock in the articles subjet regarding his theories and
suppositions, but it is interesting and quite entertaining. As for the commentors...it's
a very nice study in comparisons.
Or, I could just say that nutbags on both side of the aisle will never accept anything
less than total domination and conversion of those that disagree.
Or, I can just start calling someone names and then wait for someone else to question my
thought processes again...Happy Monday to all...
Report Abuse
Posted By: question Post Date: 07/06/09 07:15:00 PM
Title: Change
Hello Gazette I will continue to buy your paper at the Perkins news stand daily. One
person saying good by because of one article can mean more will buy to read about
informative topics that are researched by many people on the internet. Times are changing
have the courage and wisdom to stay current.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Daniel Raleigh Post Date: 07/06/09 07:04:00 PM
Title: I wonder.....
Check into Nikola Tesla's theories. Some were taken when he passed on and never seen
again. Many say by the government....hmmmm.
Report Abuse
Posted By: IZA Post Date: 07/06/09 07:03:00 PM
Title: Thank you Gazette
Thanks for helping me make a decision. I was a bit uncomfortable when the new Gazette
came out, not really liking the change, but trying to understand the need for tight
budgets, etc. So I continued on...
I was a bit more uncomfortable when some editorials started talking about how the readers
should expect less features with the new Gazette and how those features may or may not
show up in a given day (it depended on the page count). I expressed dismay that
everything except my subscription price was getting smaller with the new Gazette. But I
continued on...
So here we are now. This article has made my decision. If the Gazette is now choosing to
publish this type of stuff, it no longer deserves my hard earned dollar to support it.
Goodbye Gazette.
Report Abuse
Posted By: J.E.M. >>> Post Date: 07/06/09 07:01:00 PM
Title: ***** Cahnge
This was clearly a demolition, just watch any building implosion! Also check out the
video ***** change!
Report Abuse
Posted By: T_D Post Date: 07/06/09 06:07:00 PM
Title: ENERGY BEAMS?
Energy rays? Really? Even most other truthers think that's nuts.
Report Abuse
Posted By: LasikGuy09 Post Date: 07/06/09 05:50:00 PM
Title: 911: The Real Deal?
DANG!
Report Abuse
Posted By: Andrew Johnson Post Date: 07/06/09 05:33:00 PM
Title: Dr Greg Jenkins and Hurricane Erin
Gosh - a busy thread!
Someone has already posted a 2-year old reference to Dr Greg Jenkins ambush interview.
With matters covered in this article, it is extremely important to check all the
evidence. So here is some more for you
http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=46&Itemid=60
Name-calling and flippant remarks does not lead one to the truth. Neither do compromised
agencies with glaring conflicts of interest.
Perhaps I should say "Anyone that disagrees with me or the Official Governement
Conspiracy Theory of 9/11 is a nutjob". That way, I won't actually have to discuss or
analyse ANY evidence at all! How cool is that??
One comment mentioned "Government-steered hurricanes". Who says it was the government
that did this? What the articles says is that government agencies are being dishonest
about 9/11. Gosh - as we all know, government agencies are ALWAYS honest and NEVER act as
part of a wider or hidden agenda!!
Report Abuse
Posted By: ctiger Post Date: 07/06/09 05:17:00 PM
Title: Chris
Why do I find you so much more rational than Steve Barry?
It must be because you really are.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Chris Post Date: 07/06/09 04:54:00 PM
Title: Steve Barry
Steve Barry wrote:
"Sounds like youre the nutjob.....were you there? Do you have some sort of degree in
anything but being an idiot? If not whats the point even discussing this ****? The
buildings are down, the people are dead, bush is out of office.
Its douchebags like you who have no life that feel a need to whine and challenge common
knowledge and authority.....BECAUSE YOU HAVE NONE OF EITHER."
----
If you have to call someone a nutjob, douchebag, or whatever other degrading term you'd
care to throw around, odds are that you simply are incapable of forming a coherent,
informed opinion of your own. ;)
-
I haven't whined, but I do challenge "common knowledge" when it's not based on informed,
researched evidence. My analogy was pointing out that, for example, in the US,
particularly the midwest, common knowledge is that Christian belief is genuine.
However, there is less factual evidence in favor of a belief in Christianity than there
is evidence to indicate an informed and cautious skepticism of the way the Twin Towers
were destroyed on 9/11.
-
Occam's Razor states that when you eliminate the *impossible*, then the simplest
explanation remaining, no matter how improbable, is the most likely. Of all the evidence
I've read and looked into after questions started entering my mind about how 9/11 went
down, and subsequent fires in similarly-construct buildings that raged hotter and longer
than the ones in the WTC without causing the destruction of any other building, the
evidence that the 9/11 Commission and official story apologists claim supports their
theory is rendered highly suspect.
-
The simple explanation is this: the plane impacts and subsequent fires were insufficient
to result in the same result as a controlled demolition for both buildings given the
architecture and safety designs incorporated into the WTC infrastructures and the
asymmetrical nature of the impact of each plane into the buildings. This is pure
mathematics and physics. That leaves a simple question: what DID cause the buildings to
collapse into their own footprint, disintegrating the central supporting steel
superstructure in the process? Unfortunately, since the materials were all quickly and
discreetly hauled offsite (and offshore) as soon as possible after the incident, a
forensics investigation into any evidence pointing to the cause is impossible now.
-
I have now dignified your stark-raving frothing-mouthed reply with a polite, logic-based
response. I'd certainly appreciate a polite, logical response in kind if you're so
willing. You see, unlike the knee-jerk reactions that many like yourself are giving, I'm
very willing and able to listen to and research views that contradict my own. My views
are malleable and based upon facts, evidence, and logic. Why does it matter to me?
Because I always seek the truth, whether I like it or not, and whether other people like
it or not.
-
The truth isn't always pleasant. And it isn't always in keeping with one's worldviews.
The truth simply is what it is. Maybe the buildings really did happen to go down in the
most unimaginably impossible set of coincidences that could be arranged. I just haven't
been presented with sufficient evidence to accept that yet.
Report Abuse
Posted By: question Post Date: 07/06/09 04:50:00 PM
Title: Bush
Bush was in Florida and said he saw the first plane crash into the tower. His comment was
"that must be one bad pilot". Then he went into class to read my two pet goats for 20
min. till the second plane hit. This is all on tape and record. The funny thing is there
was not any live coverage of the first plane crash. This is not the last of Bush crimes
you will read about.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Guyowa Post Date: 07/06/09 04:43:00 PM
Title: What
What is the frequency Kenneth?
Report Abuse
Posted By: Cindy Piester Post Date: 07/06/09 04:42:00 PM
Title: Do U care? 911 confessions based on torture
The Gazette deserves a lot of credit to open discussion on the topic of 911. Thank you.
The 911 Commission Report was largely based on the confessions of three men: Khalid Sheik
Mohammed, Zubaydah, and Al Nasheri all brutally tortured first.
Read the Red Cross report: http://www.nybooks.com/icrc-report.pdf
Research on Commission Report by noted Christian theologian Dr. David Ray Griffin:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3319032398046778047
Anyone wanting free informative 911 DVDs send a mailing address to my email:
work4peacenow@gmail.com
Report Abuse
Posted By: Cecil Sneb Post Date: 07/06/09 04:36:00 PM
Title: WHAT THE HELL !!!!
MOST OF US SAW ON LIVE TV, THE SECOND PLANE HIT THE BUILDING ,WHAT IN THE WORLD IS THIS
ALL ABOUT. A FINAL SHOT AT PRESIDENT BUSH ???
Report Abuse
Posted By: Jeff Mcooter Post Date: 07/06/09 04:26:00 PM
Title: twilight zone
DO DO DO DO - There is nothing wrong with your computer monitor , don't try to adjust
your computer , you have just entered the twilight zone .
Report Abuse
Posted By: ctiger Post Date: 07/06/09 04:23:00 PM
Title: Deuce
As you probably know, I will never be surprised by any government atrocity. Some, I can
see going on right now.
What does surprise me is that people will still point at the events of the Third Reich,
yet fail to recognize the symptoms that are right under their noses.
Report Abuse
Posted By: SolPack Post Date: 07/06/09 04:22:00 PM
Title: Adam in Miami you got it
Didn't the people know that in order for oboma to become President he had to sign off on
everything. He had to agree never to tell the people about all of the aliens our
government holds, all of their space ships we are hiding. He had to promise never to tell
the people the our government blew up the world trade center. He promised never let it
out that our government can stop hurricanes , but they didn't want to in New Orleans ,
instead our government blew up the levi. But President Oboma promised to NEVER TELL !!!!
Of course there all kinds of other evil things that the government does but hey don't
tell anyone, do you promise ?
DON'T PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT EVERY PRESIDENT AND GOVERNMENT OFFIAL KEEP ALL OF THESE
THINGS A SECRET FROM THE PEOPLE AND THE NEWS MEDIA AND EVERYONE !!!!!!!!!!!
What a joke these conspiracy
Report Abuse
Posted By: BubbaGump Post Date: 07/06/09 04:21:00 PM
Title: I forgot my tinfoil hat.
Okay, here is one for the tinfoil hat club and their two inches of dust theory. Did he go
there and see the two inches of dust?
I went to the site, and saw a pile 10 to stories tall of rubble plus all the stuff in the
basmement that was 10 acres across. Why doesn't the gazette do at least a cursory
examination of the facts.
Maybe Ras is in the tinfoil hat club, and this whackjob is the president. I wander if
that is a conspiracy??????????????????????????????
Report Abuse
Posted By: Cecil Sneb Post Date: 07/06/09 04:20:00 PM
Title: Probability
Those with cutting torch experience would probably agree with the findings given that
thousands of gallons of pre-ignited aviation fuel pouring down the elevator shafts almost
instantly heated the steel beyond its critical compression strength causing the rapid
failure and further igniting the consuming fire.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Deuce Varange Post Date: 07/06/09 04:12:00 PM
Title: Ctiger
Wow, that is impressive!! You must be proud of them. And thanks, people like you make it
worthwhile.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Farmer Post Date: 07/06/09 04:09:00 PM
Title: Popular Mechanics
I did read PM back in 8th grade where all the experts got their information. I wonder how
much PM was subsidized to put out it's report that airplanes could bring
down the Trade Center Towers in free fall along with Building 7 that an airplane didn't
hit, in their own footprint no less. It really takes a genius to come up with an answer
for that one. All you have to do is read PM and the 911 Commission Report and all your
questions are answered, and scientific investigation that proves otherwise means nothing.
For all you patriotic Americans that can be led over a cliff because that is what you
were told to do, should check this site about other patriotic Americans who aren't so
quick to agree with PM.
http://patriotsquestion911.com/
Now to wait for the name calling from small minds.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Blazin Hawk Post Date: 07/06/09 04:03:00 PM
Title: Andrew Johnson writes
That judy woods is a reputable gal. She is a moonbat along with the rest of the 9/11
Truthers...she literally believes this:
"Dr. Judy Wood is the lone ’scientific’ pillar behind the theory that directed energy
beams demolished the world trade center towers. Dr. Greg Jenkins, a physicist, poses a
few simple questions to Dr. Wood regarding her research. The full interview was left
uncut to allow the viewer to fully and accurately assess the credibility of Dr. Judy Wood
and her work."
I'll bite though...what really happened, truthers? In your opinions...
http://instapinch.com/?p=307
Report Abuse
Posted By: Adam in Miami Post Date: 07/06/09 04:03:00 PM
Title: It's a conspiracy!
The funny thing about all this, is it's kind of entertaining.. Just reading the tinfoil
hat theories make me laugh. Here's what I ask, since this was an inside job. Why isn't
Obama saying anything about it, he must have access some of the information? Maybe he's
part of it too!
.
Wait a minute... Bohemian grove - Project for new American Century - Dick Cheney - George
Bush - Al Qaeda - Osama Bin Laden - Saddam Hussein - Barrack Hussein Obama!
.
All you have to do is change the “s” in Osama to a “b” and take Saddam’s last name, and
you have Barrack “Hussein Obama”!! THAT EXPLAINS IT! It’s so simple!!!
.
I can't believe you people can't see it!!!!
Report Abuse
Posted By: ctiger Post Date: 07/06/09 04:01:00 PM
Title: Deuce
They have been home safe for a while, and one was awarded the sleeve patch that only a
few have gotten in Tikrit, and also the Bronze Star.
I am proud of them, and of you.
Report Abuse
Posted By: aj - Post Date: 07/06/09 04:00:00 PM
Title: so research
so research is him wasting 500 hours of his time jerking it on the internet. great. i
should be an EXPERT in Asian culture then. dirty girls.
Report Abuse
Posted By: TD Post Date: 07/06/09 04:00:00 PM
Title: Amazing...
So many people including Russell have so much time to comment and "research" this subject
which clearly has been explained satisfactorily to the vast majority of the public who
are able to rationalize scientific evidence.
-
OMG! Enough said.
Report Abuse
Posted By: aj - Post Date: 07/06/09 03:59:00 PM
Title: so research
so research is him wasting 500 hours of his time jerking it on the internet. great. i
should be an EXPERT in Asian porn then.
Report Abuse
Posted By: OneVoice Post Date: 07/06/09 03:54:00 PM
Title: My two cents
I'm with whoever mentioned Occam's Razor (waaaay down there somewhere!). How likely is it
that the government, in all it's bipartisan, checks-and-balances, bureaucratic glory,
could get it's act together to the extent necessary to plan, realize, and continue to
cover up the whole shebang? Or even just to cover it up, if some other group was
responsible.
.
Far more likely, I'd think, that a smaller group of people with the same beliefs and
goals coordinated hijacking planes to fly into buildings.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Deuce Varange Post Date: 07/06/09 03:52:00 PM
Title: Ctiger
Let me elaborate on my earlier post. I meant to call our government/leaders hypocrites. I
was not referring to the American public at large and certainly not to our troops. I also
served in Iraq and I can assure you that it was not for any politician. I think the
majority of common folk love this country. I just don't think most realize how their
leaders exploit it. I hope your sons or daughters are home safe soon.
Freedom of expression is a beautiful thing, despite hacks like Steve Barry who amuse
themselves with simple-minded comments/personal attacks. The difference is that we don't
get mad about it. Ideas built upon logic and reason are impervious to such feeble
attacks. It's too bad they don't take a similar approach- maybe they wouldn't be so
insecure. There's no good reason to be upset by this research. Maybe some people feel
they are losing their security blanket (and react like children)when they hear the
possibility of their government having part in an atrocity.
Report Abuse
Posted By: aaron saylor Post Date: 07/06/09 03:31:00 PM
Title: Take care with paper's credibility
I am troubled by the gazette's posting this. There are two potential stories: 1. Area man
believes 9/11 is secret government weapon, or 2. 9/11 was actually secret government
weapon.
The first is not newsworthy, and the second would take the investigative journalism that
I come to the Gazette for. By posting this as a story, with a provocative headline you
lend credibility to an idea which you have not fully researched or developed.
If this is an argument that Rasdal or the gazette considers credible, then I challenge
you to investigate, find out what is credible, and come back with an actual story.
If the gazette's intention is simply to put up provacative blog posts, then please
differentiate your branding. There have been several articles recently which have had
this similar one side of the story feel with no judgement or counterpoint. I understand
that the Gazzette needs to generate an enormous amount of content and that there will
need to be some experimentation with quality control. Please slap a different label on
these stories.
Report Abuse
Posted By: ctiger Post Date: 07/06/09 03:30:00 PM
Title: Deuce
I find myself once again agreeing with you, except for your statements on nationalism and
about patriots being hypocrites.
When my children re-upped after 9/11 they ended up in Iraq instead of Afghanistan where
they had wanted to be.
They did what they did there not for any politicians, but for all the people. Our loyalty
to this country is for the citizens, even Steve Barry and his right to call me a douche
bag.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Deuce Varange Post Date: 07/06/09 03:30:00 PM
Title: Russ Gerst
Well-said, Patricia. Bravo, I agree completely.
I don't understand why so many people are angry about this man's research. Be cattle if
you want to and suck up whatever the media puts in your trough, but don't insult people
who have the fortitude to verify information and seek truth for themselves- from UNBIASED
sources. If you are that passionate about it, why don't you refute his evidence? Show him
and Ms. Wood where their math/reasoning is wrong. I'm guessing you all cannot and find it
easier to criticize than engage in thoughtful conversation.
Report Abuse
Posted By: question Post Date: 07/06/09 03:27:00 PM
Title: Think
No one has said Bin Laden was not involved. The questions are deeper than that. A lot of
money has been made by a lot of people. Put options yes possible by Bin Laden and much
more. Glade to see you are asking for answers to a question. Should you be called a name..
Report Abuse
Posted By: BobInIowa Post Date: 07/06/09 03:24:00 PM
Title: Roswell
is in New Mexico. Wow.
Report Abuse
Posted By: J M Post Date: 07/06/09 03:16:00 PM
Title: 9/11
I'm dismayed with the punctuation and spelling used by the geniuses that believe such
junk. I think they'd be better off wondering about the motives of Obama!!!
Report Abuse
Posted By: question Post Date: 07/06/09 03:07:00 PM
Title: Please leave
This message board is removing a lot of name callers and angry people for the Gazette.
Hopfully for good, no gain in reading just one sentence about a topic and having absolute
knowledge. Name calling says a lot about the person doing the put downs. Low self respect
to not research for intellegent responces. Good bye angree people, move on if you know
how to.... I am mad and going to quit ha ha
Report Abuse
Posted By: SolPack Post Date: 07/06/09 03:01:00 PM
Title: hard to believe
It is hard enough to believe we have a conspiracy theory ***** ball living here in CR. It
is really hard to understand how many here are buying into the nut case and his far
fetched crazy ideas.
What do you guys go out to Roswell AZ. for summer time conventions to look for space
aliens too ?
Report Abuse
Posted By: Steve Barry Post Date: 07/06/09 02:59:00 PM
Title: BY THE WAY
If you fools really need evidence....why dont you look into the investments Osama Bin
Laden made right before the attacks.
GET A BRAIN PEOPLE!!!!
Report Abuse
Posted By: PATRICIA EHLER Post Date: 07/06/09 02:59:00 PM
Title: Russ Gerst is no nutjob
I have known Russ for a number of years. I have always found him to be an intelligent,
reasonable person. I'm appalled that so many commenters here find it necessary to vilify
someone who has the nerve to question our government. "We disagree with him, so let's
call him names." Grow up!
When is it ever wrong to question our government? That great patriot, Thomas Jefferson,
said, "Reason and free inquiry are the only effectual agents against error." We have the
right, no, rather the duty, to question our leaders. If Russ has given this 500 hours of
study, that's 499 more than most people have spent on it. You may not agree with him, but
give him some credit for being sincerely concerned about the state of our country.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Steve Barry Post Date: 07/06/09 02:57:00 PM
Title: Chris....
Sounds like youre the nutjob.....were you there? Do you have some sort of degree in
anything but being an idiot? If not whats the point even discussing this ****? The
buildings are down, the people are dead, bush is out of office.
Its douchebags like you who have no life that feel a need to whine and challenge common
knowledge and authority.....BECAUSE YOU HAVE NONE OF EITHER.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Deuce Varange Post Date: 07/06/09 02:56:00 PM
Title: Naive
Why do so many of you give our government/leaders so much credit?? I'm sorry to break it
to those who are unaware, but your leaders care absolutely NOTHING for you. All they want
is your labor, your money, and your obedience. I'm sick of these hypocrites talking about
patriotism. Nationalism died and they replaced it with globalism. These capitalist
leaders will invest their money wherever there is the greatest return (low risk is
preferred as well). They would let American families starve and rot if they could profit
off it.
I'm not saying I'm convinced at this point that there was government involvement, but I
certainly wouldn't put it beneath them. The American government has been guilty of some
scandalous deeds throughout our history. What's wrong with taking a look at scientific
claims? If there is no substance to it, surely it will be refuted. I look forward to
checking out some of these references on the matter. Critical thinking is a lost art.
Turn off the tv, people, and start using your noodles.
Report Abuse
Posted By: aj - Post Date: 07/06/09 02:54:00 PM
Title: disappointed
russ is an ass, and the gazette stinks for printing up this garbage. im done reading this
tabloid newspaper
Report Abuse
Posted By: question Post Date: 07/06/09 02:51:00 PM
Title: Respect
It is disrespectful to all the survivors and family to except the failure to answer
questions that the family members have.
The conspiracy is what the 9/11 commission has presented. The family of the Cantor group
have been questioning the report from day one.
There is a pettion to help the family of the survivors to reopen the case. The family
survivors need to be respected and heard. Sitting back and giving quick judgements of who
owns respect is a easy response to validate your opinion.
The reopening will digg for the truth and answer questions. I would respect the dead by
not covering up and avoiding evidence to the contrary of the 9/11 report.
Help your friend rest in peace. Don't we search for the truth after a murder.
Report Abuse
Posted By: wilson picket Post Date: 07/06/09 02:50:00 PM
Title: Psychoses 'R' Us
I'm thinking maybe 9/11 was all started by an errant shot from the grassy knoll in Dallas
that's been bouncing around the atmosphere since '63. Probably hit the jet that hit the
Twin Towers that hit these nut jobs in the head. Jeesh...what a gaggle of loons!
Report Abuse
Posted By: LindaA Post Date: 07/06/09 02:31:00 PM
Title: When the 1st plane hit
When the first plane hit, the man sitting next to me was on the phone with a trader at
Cantor Fitzgerald. He said there had been an explosion at the WTC. We checked CNN and
they had nothing, so we assumed the explosion was nothing. Soon enough, there was plenty
of coverage. This man made it to the roof of the WTC, where he came down with the
building. I find it disrespectful to all of those lost to come up with some off the wall
conspiracy theory.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Chris Post Date: 07/06/09 02:14:00 PM
Title: I wonder...
For those of you who are calling those who question the official account of 9/11
"whackos", "nutjobs", etc: how many of you believe in a magical man in the sky who
mystically impregnated some lady with his magical man-baby, who then grew up and then had
to die and come back to life so that everyone who believes in him can go join the magical
man in the sky when they die?
Stones in glass houses, people. Stones in glass houses.
Report Abuse
Posted By: Gee **** Post Date: 07/06/09 02:08:00 PM
Title: nuttin' but a jar of mixed nuts
wacka dacka doo!
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Posted By: Bob Johnson Post Date: 07/06/09 02:05:00 PM
Title: Like I said
Calling names is not the way. However this article could've been taken a little more
seriously if the author and the interviewee didn't mention anything about hurricanes
being controlled by the government. People wonder why conspiracy theories aren't always
looked upon as very creditable or believable when wild claims like this are thrown in
there too. To the common person, claims of government cover-ups, the government lying,
etc are entirely feasable and are documented. But to expect the common person to take
claims of this nature seriously, then throw in weather controlling devices changing the
course of a hurricane is sure idiocy. This mind you happened before Hurricane Katrina?!
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Posted By: AshleyW Post Date: 07/06/09 02:04:00 PM
Title: Thank you, Gazette..
for finally publishing something that put me over the edge enough to stop reading and
cancel my subscription.
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Posted By: question Post Date: 07/06/09 02:03:00 PM
Title: Small
Anger, I don't know how to cope......Anger, Anger. Don't think do as I yell at you to
do.... Anger. Call some more names and then puff up!!!! So small but Angree
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Posted By: Andrew Johnson Post Date: 07/06/09 02:03:00 PM
Title: Evidence, not Theory
Popular Mechanics did not debunk Dr. Wood's evidence. True evidence
cannot be debunked. Dr. Wood does not present "theories," only
evidence. Here is a partial list of evidence that must be explained:
http://drjudywood.com/wtc
Popular Mechanics does not explain this evidence.
The NIST report does not explain this evidence, either, and this is
why Dr. Wood filed a Request for Corrections with NIST. This
included notifying NIST of a conflict of interest with one or more of
their contractors as being developers and and manufacturers of
Directed Energy Weapons.
http://drjudywood.com/articles/NIST/Qui_Tam_Wood.html
http://www.prlog.org/10260429-911-qui-tam-case-will-have-its-day-in-court.html
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Posted By: spiderone Post Date: 07/06/09 02:01:00 PM
Title: 9-11
I was going to write a reply to the article but the door bell rang
and Elvis and the Easter bunny were there selling travel plans to the
Bermuda Triangle. Then I got a call from Roswell saying another
alien escaped from his cage and the Air Force is ******. By the
way when they landed on the moon,the space capsule got stuck
in green cheese. I wish these conspiracy people would get a life.
too many bad acid trips will cost you.
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Posted By: Steve Barry Post Date: 07/06/09 01:50:00 PM
Title: CTIGER in disguise!!!
You're way to obvious....when you say right wing you mean right as in correct? If that is
the case than I applaud you....I think thats what they call a moment of clarity lol
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Posted By: Steve Barry Post Date: 07/06/09 01:41:00 PM
Title: WOW
I only read a few lines of this article....its obvious the Gazette wants to be a
newspaper for idiots and douchbags that do nothing but **** and moan. LMAO!!!!
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Posted By: question Post Date: 07/06/09 01:36:00 PM
Title: Anger I am right not you
To ask questions and search for answers and stay on topic. I hope people question and
open there eyes to different opinions and not follow the leader .The right wing are
trying there bulling name calling as displayed in this message board. When you show your
anger you lose.....
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Posted By: Tyree Campbell Post Date: 07/06/09 01:25:00 PM
Title: Michael Jackson Update
BUBBLES COMMITS SUTTEE! FILM AT 11.
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Posted By: BobInIowa Post Date: 07/06/09 01:23:00 PM
Title: Kooks are kooks
Are these the same people that try to dispell moon landings and have Palin 2112 signs?
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Posted By: Blazin Hawk Post Date: 07/06/09 01:12:00 PM
Title: Another good site...
http://www.ae911truth.info
This destroys many of the arguments from the 9/11 "truthers". If Dave Rasdal was even a
tad bit interested in the truth he would have done a brief perusal of the internet and
realized there was no story at all here...
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Posted By: Blazin Hawk Post Date: 07/06/09 01:09:00 PM
Title: Good Lord...
The idiocy today is astounding...
"PM was debunked too. Ill get back to this after work"
ROTFLMAO! By whom? Some whackjob on the left, where inevitably most of these conspiracies
about 9/11 spring from? Do tell.
It's real simple folks...the link has been provided to PM. They use experts in the field
as was already spelled out. You have an issue with the official truth, then post what PM
says about it and try and refute it. ******.
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Posted By: travel123 Post Date: 07/06/09 12:52:00 PM
Title: Spelling
I have to be fast with my responses and how do you use spell check in this posting...
sorry try to get the measage Thank You
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Posted By: brent Post Date: 07/06/09 12:48:00 PM
Title: uggg
Must be a SLOOOOOW day at the Gazette newsroom!
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Posted By: travel123 Post Date: 07/06/09 12:41:00 PM
Title: Debunk PM is easy
Popular Mechanics is hardly a sourse of absolute knowledge.
Many Building Architects including the designers of the towers know that a plane could
not take the towers down. When a building collapses there should be people, desks, filing
cabnets and floor after floor of steel rebar and cement floors setting on top of each
other.
Go look at a bridge overpass of the largest size and the steel for the bridge will still
be considerable thinner and smaller than the 48 steel beams used for the interior core of
the towers. They also will not be wraped with 3" steel plating as the core collums were.
Popular Mechanics completely leaves out of there sloppy diagnoses that there was a center
core. 48 colums 52"deep incased in 3" steel welded plates wrapped around the colums.
Look at any steel structure and use a tape measure to get an idea the dementions of just
one collme. Popular Mechanics was not an investigation. The floors were not trusses as
the PM says. they were steel beams welded and bolted a fire would not bring the floors to
a collapse. The building has had fires .
Why was the basement blown up and the steel colums in the basement cut at 45 degree
angles. these are the core colums. It is a provine fact that thermate was used in the
destruction of the towers. I dare you to look at the footage of Building 7 emplotion on
its footing into the basement exatly as building demolition contractor do...
The consperice is that the three building feel
Never before has a steel building failed to the degree of exploding ever before from a 1
hour fire. Try and think with a fire melting the steel of that size. The steel would not
explode out 600' with out bombs just as the Firemen have said. Look at the tapes it was a
inside job.
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Posted By: Vanessa Smith Post Date: 07/06/09 12:40:00 PM
Title: whether you believe this ideas or not....
I do not think that Mr. Gerst is searching for attention etc. He is actually from my
hometown of Mediapolis...he was in my older brother's class. He was one of the top
students in their class. Being from a small town we generally believe our government and
are very patriotic folks...but I do think he made some points that made sense. Whether he
is right or wrong...great thing about our country....we are allowed to question our
goverment and spend our own time/money researching something that changed our American
history forever. I applaud him looking for the truth...would love to hear if any updates
occur on this story.
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Posted By: Bob Johnson Post Date: 07/06/09 12:31:00 PM
Title: Farmer
Uneducated? I'm not sure where you draw that information from. I agree the name calling
is a bit juvenile but it definitely can come from all sides, making all engaged in it
sound like an arse.
.
Bottom line people are going to believe what they want to believe. Whether that's from
scientific analysis from trained and educated experts in numerous fields who were the
dirty boots on the ground examining the evidence from the crime scene. Or from folks who
pour through various articles, data, etc and take glints of bits and pieces of
information, sometimes distorting or misquoting it, then package it as the truth of a
larger conspiracy.
.
The that the attacks were just that, attacks by terrorists linked to Al-Queda who were
solely responsible for 9-11. Their method was to turn civilian aircraft into guided
missles to target landmarks of our country's military and economic power. And to spread
their particular message of fear and hatred of the US and the West. They are able to keep
their agenda going, though unintentionally I suspect, by turning Americans against each
other debating about the validity of the attacks and who's responsible for them. Who are
we allowing to win here, Al Queda?
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Posted By: C H Post Date: 07/06/09 12:24:00 PM
Title: So, I took the time to read the PM article
Nearly every fact expressed in this Gazette article is refutted by the PM article.
.
I find it interesting that although PM states they "...consulted more than 300 experts
and organizations..." while conducting their investigation, most, if not all, are
government entities or are contracted by a government entity. Doesn't that fact in itself
make this article very subjective rather than objective?
.
I don't have an opinion either way because at this point it doesn't matter. However,
people who believe it cannot happen again are very naive. Whether by terrorists or our
government.
.
If it was an inside job by our government, what did/does the US expect to gain by killing
thousands of people? Can someone explain that to me?
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Posted By: SolPack Post Date: 07/06/09 12:14:00 PM
Title: Joe--Russ
Did you two go to the same conservancy theory school? what is your opinion about Elvis is
he still alive ? Did man really land on the moon ? Was Perl Harbor really bombed or was
that bush's fault too ?
Hey maybe Space men from Mars bombed Perl harbor? I'm sure some of your nutty friends
have all kinds of ideas about how the US government have space ships from who knows where
hidden away in Nevada too !!!
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Posted By: BubbaGump Post Date: 07/06/09 12:11:00 PM
Title: Filth
This is absolute filth. Each person is entitled to their opinion, but the Gazette does
not have to give voice to every whack job "researcher" out there.
These people are no better than Holocaust deniers, and giving them space in the paper
disgraces the memory of everyone that died that day.
Go crawl under a rock and play with your star wars costumes.
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Posted By: Joe Stem Post Date: 07/06/09 12:03:00 PM
Title: Blazin
PM was debunked too. Ill get back to this after work:]
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Posted By: Jane Doe Post Date: 07/06/09 11:52:00 AM
Title: Some basic explanations using basic physics
Oh, geez, trying to call non-conspiracy theorists uneducated?
I've taken only basic classes in physics and I can tell you that these claims are very
poorly formed.
The 8 second fall? This can be explained by mentioning that the tower collapsed from a
point near the TOP of the building, and not from the BOTTOM. The weight from the
collapsing top accelerated the collapse of the rest of the building.
The plane didn't come out on the other side because of the sheer density of the concrete
and steel in the building, which exhibited a reactive force that crumpled the front of
the plane.
The towers collapsed cleanly by DESIGN. When designing large buildings, they not only
have to be sturdy but they also need to collapse cleanly so that in case of need for
demolition, or if a bomb or plane hits, other buildings aren't damaged.
The dust? Combine the reactive force and the point of the collapse to show that there was
ENORMOUS force on the structure, enough to smash it into smithereens.
Pataki could likely walk on ground zero safely because there was so much debris that it
likely snuffed out the fire. Also, using the elementary laws of heat transfer, the amount
of cool debris balanced with the relatively small amount of very hot debris to create an
only slightly warm environment.
The hurricane is coincidental. Weather is unpredictable, as us Iowans know.
And yes, read this: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html
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Posted By: Blazin Hawk Post Date: 07/06/09 11:35:00 AM
Title: Smart Farmer...
Read the Popular Mechanics article like I have suggested to many here and get back with
me...
Whacko...lol
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Posted By: Farmer Post Date: 07/06/09 11:21:00 AM
Title: The Uneducated
By reading the comments on the story above, it seems like the naysayers have a maximum
8th grade education. They can't disagree without name calling (wacko, nutcase, etc.). I
must have missed it, but I never read anything about JFK or the moonlanding in the entire
article. My guess is they are too lazy or dumb to do any research on their own. Just
leave it to the 911 commission to tell us what happened.
On the otherhand, those that agree seem to have a high level of intelligence. My guess is
they have their doubts about the official explanation and have done their own research
and have come to the conclusion that we have been lied to.
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Posted By: Jonathan D Post Date: 07/06/09 11:18:00 AM
Title: re:
Conspiracy theorists seem to believe that anyone that says anything contradictory to a
conspiracy theory has either been paid, threatened, or brainwashed by the federal
government and therefore isn't credible. Its the same way a bible banger believes that
anyone that questions christianity is under the influence of satan and therefore isn't
credible. I see a very strong parallel in behavior there.
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Posted By: 38395 Post Date: 07/06/09 11:16:00 AM
Title: youtube.
So video.google.com or youtube.com If you have an open mind I suggest watching the
zeitgeist documentary. It not only covers this, but other terrorism and also the church
and the federal reserve. If you watch prepare to be upset with everyone. It will
definitely open your eyes though. Good documentary regardless.
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Posted By: Bob Johnson Post Date: 07/06/09 11:15:00 AM
Title: Well
The article itself is definitely going towards the weekly wipe that gets put right next
to the check out aisle at the grocery store IMO. I'm not really sure the Gazette's
intentions about putting this out there, what's next?
.
I read the article and what really discredits someone and their theories is when they
start talking about weather control of hurricanes. Come on. This is the same sci-fi stuff
that Richard Hoagland puts out about Hyperdimensional physics. The same group of people
will argue whether we landed on the moon or not, but in the next breath will claim that
we can control hurricanes and other phenomena.
.
Its funny how eyewitness accounts are quoted so often by people, but yet are often the
most unreliable. Given stress levels and the utter chaos surrounding the attacks, people
hear, see, and feel things that may not be entirely accurate. Accounts of people not
hearing the second jet coming into the other tower can be easily explained as a result of
tunnel vision which can also block or impair other senses into ignoring what's occurring
around them. Yet video clearly shows the second plane flying over the city and crashing
into the tower.
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Posted By: Blazin Hawk Post Date: 07/06/09 11:15:00 AM
Title: Melisa...
"Don't give up, there are many of us who still have questions and want answers."
Please read the original link rom Popular Mechanics, then come back with any other
questions you may have.
And Joe Stem...good Lord. At least Popular Mechanics has credibility. Don't bring fringe,
fanatical website links here if you expect to be taken seriously...I will refer you to
the PM article linked as well. Any questions after that?
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Posted By: travel123 Post Date: 07/06/09 11:11:00 AM
Title: Lynn
In defense of defence where is the speel check I could not find it and I'm sure there is
a way to access it. Please tell me..... Thanks Notice speel
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Posted By: Cindy Piester Post Date: 07/06/09 11:09:00 AM
Title: 911 Confessions based on torture
My Fellow Americans, the 911 Commission Report was largely based on the confessions of
three men: Khalid Sheik Mohammed, Zubaydah, and Al Nasheri. The torture they underwent
yielded confessions that gave the Bush Administration cover for 911 and justification for
obliterating Iraq.
See: Dr. David Ray Griffin :9/11 Contradictions at:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3319032398046778047
Also, this compelling leaked International Committee Red Cross Report on the torture they
and others received:http://www.nybooks.com/icrc-report.pdf
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Posted By: Andrew Leonard Post Date: 07/06/09 11:09:00 AM
Title: Absolute rot
"Why did Hurricane Erin mysteriously turn away just before the collapse?" I don't know,
Gazette, why did you hire this reporter and print this pap?
I guess it could be worse - you could have called him a "known lesbian". But surely a
reputable paper in this century wouldn't ... oh, wait.
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Posted By: Ann Onamouse Post Date: 07/06/09 11:02:00 AM
Title: The only kooks I see
are those who blindly trust the government, and honestly believe that they could not be
complicit in such an horrific act.
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Posted By: Joe Stem Post Date: 07/06/09 10:44:00 AM
Title: Kooks??
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041026093059633
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Posted By: SolPack Post Date: 07/06/09 10:35:00 AM
Title: sad sad what this paper is putting out
It is very sad to see the gazette turn into the National inquirer. What is next, men from
Mars caused the bad economy ? Or maybe the cover up of the moon landing ? Has your nut
case looked into that yet?
everything can be seconded guessed from these conspiracy theory Waco's !!!
The sad and sick thing is that the Cedar Rapids Gazette would even consider running
something that from one of these type sick of conspiracy theory kook's.
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Posted By: flip . Post Date: 07/06/09 10:34:00 AM
Title: 9/11
Google "Project For A New American Century",then look who signed it. These people state
that they need something big,like Pearl Harbor,to get the great industrial military
complex going on. But then I seriously doubt that any of you people going on about
theory's will pull yourself out of your matrix long enough to read it. Having and
independent thought of your own would be too taxing on your brain. If you did, you would
realize that, we never landed on the moon,Kennedy was,in fact, shot by a man behind the
grassy knoll,and 9-11 was without any doubt,and inside job.
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Posted By: LYNN SAMPSON Post Date: 07/06/09 10:18:00 AM
Title: hey rick
the word is spelled defense not defence where is the spell check
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Posted By: Joe Stem Post Date: 07/06/09 10:16:00 AM
Title: We can do this all day
National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
The muscle hijackers 'picked by bin Ladin':
Satam al Suqami, Wail and Waleed al Shehri (two brothers) Both Alive, Abdul Aziz al Omari
Alive, Fayez Banihammad (from the UAE), Ahmed al Ghamdi, Hamza al Ghamdi, Mohand al
Shehri Alive, Saeed al Ghamdi Alive, Ahmad al Haznawi, Ahmed al Nami Alive, Majed Moqed,
and Salem al Hazmi Alive (the brother of Nawaf al Hazmi).
How can the 9/11 Commission be taken seriously when they refer to alive 'hijackers'?
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/hijackers.html
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Posted By: DW Post Date: 07/06/09 10:11:00 AM
Title: Al-Qaeda
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a090192ajaj
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Posted By: Melisa Post Date: 07/06/09 10:07:00 AM
Title: Thank you Mr. Gerst
I would like to thank you for what you are doing. Please do not be discouraged by the
negative comments, they are coming from people with very closed minds who are clearly
afraid.
"Close-minded people are very certain and dogmatic in their views, and generally believe
that there is a single correct point of view," said study researcher Dolores Albarracin,
a psychology professor at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. "The
implication is that you have a group of people who would only seek to confirm their
points of view, resisting all evidence to the contrary via avoidance of exposure."
This article has given myself and many others more to think about and research. Unlike
those who follow like sheep, there are some who question the events of that tragic day,
along with many other events in history. It is called research and investigation.....it
is what keeps man moving forward. Don't give up, there are many of us who still have
questions and want answers.
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Posted By: liveinlinncounty Post Date: 07/06/09 10:06:00 AM
Title: WTC Theory
Lives were lost and a country devastated, and the who's and whats don't really matter . .
.you can't change what has already happened . . . anymore than you can control it
happening again . . . it is what it is. There are evil people in this world . .
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Posted By: Joe Stem Post Date: 07/06/09 09:48:00 AM
Title: ?
Who's they??
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Posted By: DW Post Date: 07/06/09 09:42:00 AM
Title: Joe
And dont forget they originally did it in 1992! I bet that didnt happen either.
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Posted By: Joe Stem Post Date: 07/06/09 09:29:00 AM
Title: wow
Let see..... We can spend billions..um...trillions... on defence, and
foreigners..um...terrorist... can walk on planes, and run them into towers???Thats after
we were warned by many countrys, right before it happen??
What blind people
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Posted By: DW Post Date: 07/06/09 09:20:00 AM
Title: 911 conspiracy theorists
I sure hope the families who lost loved ones in that cowardly act of ... oh wait ... "man
made disaster" can look you up. Im sure they would like to have a word with you about how
it never happened.
Really?!? The government cant cover-up a simple break in .... but they can purpertrate a
massive scale one like that? I bet you also believe the moon landing never took place
either. SHEESH!
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Posted By: Owen Harper Post Date: 07/06/09 09:17:00 AM
Title: travel123
You present the favourite argument of conspiracy theorists everywhere, "If I wasn't on to
something they wouldn't be so upset."
.
Just remember: They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they
also laughed at Bozo the Clown. - Carl Sagan
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Posted By: Hugs4u Post Date: 07/06/09 09:14:00 AM
Title: simple truth
The simple truth is GW needed 9/11 to take peoples minds off that his brother and him
stole the election.
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