Social Secutirty Death Index vs. 9/11 Flight Passenger Manifests (presumably from CNN)

[James H. Fetzer]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=printer_friendly&forum=125&topic_id=10112

10112, The pilots and the planes
Posted by DulceDecorum on Fri Apr-02-04 09:07 PM

These are the Social Security Death Index Search Results
for the aviators of the four planes of September 11, 2001.
The following results were obtained on 3/12/2004 by accessing this site
http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/ssdi.cgi/ssdi.cgi
and typing in the names of the aviators together with the month (September) and the year (2001).
The entries below have been edited slightly.

I have been given to understand that:
Verified = Report verified with a family member or someone acting on behalf of a family member.
Proof = Death Certificate Observed.

******** ********

FLIGHT 11
John Alexander Ogonowski AGE 52
Name: Birth: Death: Last Residence: SSN card issued in:
BRUCE E OGONOWSKI : 28 Feb 1944 : 12 Sep 2001 : Proof : California

Thomas Francis McGuinness Jr AGE 42
Name : Birth : Death :SSN card issued in:
ALICE A MCGUINNESS : 03 Feb 193 : 04 Sep 2001 : Verified : New York
JOHN P MCGUINNESS : 25 Feb 1918 : 01 Sep 2001 : Verified : Ohio

******** ********

FLIGHT 77
Charles Frank Burlingame III AGE 51
Name : Birth : Death : SSN card issued in:
CHARLES F BURLINGAME : 12 Sep 1949: 11 Sep 2001: Verified: District of Columbia

David Michael Charlebois AGE 39
Name: Birth: Death: Last Residence: SSN card issued in:
Last Name CHARLEBOIS
Death Year 2001 Scanned
Death Month 09 Scanned
NOTHING FOUND

******** ********

FLIGHT 93
Jason Matthew Dahl AGE 43
Since there were eighteen (18) entries, here are the males and below that,
the one and only (DAHL) death that actually occurred on September 11, 2001.
Name : Birth : Death : SSN card issued in:
GEORGE G DAHL : 22 Jun 1919 : 15 Sep 2001 : Verified : Massachusetts
CRETE M DAHL : 03 Aug 1896 : 15 Sep 2001 : Verified : New York
OLIVER B DAHL : 22 Oct 1918 : 07 Sep 2001 : Verified : Minnesota
DAVID J DAHL : 31 Oct 1941 : 26 Sep 2001 : Proof : Minnesota
SIGFRED T DAHL: 24 Feb 1939 : 09 Sep 2001 : Verified : Washington
NORMAN K DAHL : 17 Jun 1928 : 19 Sep 2001 : Verified : North Dakota
JEFFREY P DAHL: 19 Dec 1951 : 26 Sep 2001 : Proof : Oregon
CHARLES M DAHL: 17 Jan 1929 : 16 Sep 2001 : Verified : California
PEARL W DAHL : 14 Sep 1925 : 11 Sep 2001 : Verified : Indiana

Leroy Wilton Homer Jr AGE 36
Name : Birth : Death : Issued in:
HERBERT W HOMER: 05 Feb 1953 : 11 Sep 2001 : Proof : Massachusetts
EDITH D HOMER : 27 Feb 1918 : 01 Sep 2001 : Verified : New York
GLENN B HOMER : 13 Feb 1926 : 24 Sep 2001 : Proof : Pennsylvania

******** ********

FLIGHT 175
Victor John Saracini AGE 51
Name : Birth : Death: : SSN card issued in:
VICTOR J SARACINI : 29 Aug 1950: 11 Sep 2001 : New Jersey

Michael Robert Horrocks AGE 38
Name : Birth : Death : SSN card issued in:
MICHAEL R HORROCKS : 24 Mar 1963 : 11 Sep 2001 : Proof : Pennsylvania

******** ********

Let us now turn our attention to the planes that these aviators were flying.

Here is the N-number page on
the FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION DATABASE.
http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/NNum_inquiry.asp
These are the results obtained by typing in the N-mumbers and Serial numbers
for the four planes of September 11, 2001.


N 334AA Flight 11 Serial 22332 Issued 1/6/2000 Registration: Cancelled 1/14/2002
N 644AA Flight 77 Serial 24602 Issued 5/8/1991 Registration: Cancelled 1/14/2002
N 591UA Flight 93 Serial 28142 Issued 7/1/1996 Registration: Valid
N 612UA Flight 175 Serial 21873 Issued 1/18/1984 Registration: Valid
http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/acmain.htm

Sec. 47.41 - Duration and return of Certificate.
(a) Each Certificate of Aircraft Registration issued by the FAA under this subpart is effective, unless suspended or revoked, UNTIL THE DATE UPON WHICH --
(2) The registration is canceled at the written request of the holder of the certificate;
(3) THE AIRCRAFT IS TOTALLY DESTROYED OR SCRAPPED;
(b) The Certificate of Aircraft Registration, with the reverse side completed, must be returned to the FAA Aircraft Registry --
(3) Upon the termination of the registration, by the holder of the Certificate of Aircraft Registration in all other cases mentioned in paragraph (a) of this section.
http://www.risingup.com/fars/info/part47-41-FAR.shtml

******** ********

CONCLUSION
When we put the results of the SSDI and the FAA database together,
this is what we have.

FLIGHT 11
John Alexander Ogonowski, pilot, apparently STILL ALIVE.
Thomas Francis McGuinness Jr, copilot, apparently STILL ALIVE.
N 334AA Serial 22332
Registration: Cancelled/ plane destroyed on 1/14/2002

FLIGHT 77
Charles Frank Burlingame, pilot, DECEASED as of September 11, 2001.
David Michael Charlebois, copilot, apparently STILL ALIVE.
N 644AA Serial 24602
Registration: Cancelled/ plane destroyed on 1/14/2002

FLIGHT 93
Jason Matthew Dahl, pilot, apparently STILL ALIVE.
Leroy Wilton Homer Jr, copilot, apparently STILL ALIVE.
N 591UA Serial 28142
Registration: Valid/ PLANE STILL ABLE TO FLY.

FLIGHT 175
Victor Saracini, pilot, DECEASED as of September 11, 2001
Michael Horrocks, copilot, DECEASED as of September 11, 2001
N 612UA Serial 21873
Registration: Valid/ PLANE STILL ABLE TO FLY.
10131, One small hole in your theory:
Posted by MercutioATC on Sat Apr-03-04 10:50 AM
You're using the accuracy of record-keeping systems to attempt to prove that dead people are still alive and crashed aircraft flightworthy.

Which is more likely, that the records are in error or that the people/planes are still alive/flying?

If the government did, in fact, engineer some vast conspiracy and substitute aircraft, why wouldn't they make the records reflect the "official story"?

If you'll notice, American had both of their aircraft's registrations cancelled. United did not. Isn't is more likely that American just followed through with the paperwork and United didn't?

What you've compiled is an excellent testimony to the innacuracy of Social Security and FAA recordkeeping. I don't see how it's anything more than that, though.
10145, Show me the bodies
Posted by DulceDecorum on Sat Apr-03-04 03:23 PM
and the debris.

And I now CANNOT accept some piece of paper that says whatever its author wants it say.
12294, I think you might find this picture interesting
Posted by DoYouEverWonder on Wed May-26-04 11:00 PM
I found it about a week ago and I don't recall ever seeing this picture before.


It is known that debris from the aircraft traveled completely through the structure. For example, a landing gear from the aircraft that impacted WTC 2 was found to have crashed through the roof of a building located six blocks to the north, and one of the jet engines was found at the corner of Murray and Church Streets. The extent to which debris scattered throughout the impact floors is also evidenced by photographs of the fireballs that occurred as the aircraft struck the building (Figure 2-28). Figure 2-29 shows a portion of the fuselage of the aircraft, lying on the roof of WTC 5.

http://serendipity.911review.org/wot/wtc_ch2/fig-2-29.jpe

Figure 2-29 A portion of the fuselage of United Airlines Flight 175 on the roof of WTC 5. (for some reason I can't get the picture to come up but the link will take you right to it).



What I find odd about his picture, is that Flight 175 went through a massive skyscraper and apparently a fair bit of debris came out the other end. Now can someone explain to me why there wasn't hardly any debris from the plane that flew into the Pentagon? I would assume that since the Pentagon was supposedly built to be an impenetrable fortress that most of the plane would have ended up squished in front of the building.


12296, lared: Please answer this person's query about FL 77
Posted by Abe Linkman on Wed May-26-04 11:35 PM
lared posted a theory about this recently, but I can't find it right now.

Maybe he'll see this and give you the benefit of his analysis of how a B757 was able to perform as magically when it crashed, as it did when "Amazin" Hanni was supposedly at the controls.
12315, Abe requested I answer this
Posted by LARED on Fri May-28-04 12:07 PM
What I find odd about his picture, is that Flight 175 went through a massive skyscraper and apparently a fair bit of debris came out the other end. Now can someone explain to me why there wasn't hardly any debris from the plane that flew into the Pentagon? I would assume that since the Pentagon was supposedly built to be an impenetrable fortress that most of the plane would have ended up squished in front of the building.

The first issue is a question. Who said the Pentagon was built to be an impenetrable fort?

But, if you mean that the section attacked was refurbished to be blast resistant then we are on the same page. The OUTSIDE wall was reinforced, the windows were blast resistant. That does not translate into flight 77 squishing into the building facade. The jet impacting the wall is not a blast, it is an impact of massive proportions.

An analogy would be bullet proof vest that police wear. There are not REALLY bulletproof. They will stop many types of rounds, but not all of them. You will never find a policeman that thinks his or her bulletproof vest will stop a 50 caliber rifle.

The Pentagon is the same issue. It was designed to mitigate damage and protect people from bombs like the one at the Murrah building. It was never going to stop a large commercial jet traveling at over 200 MPH.


10311, One BIG hole
Posted by DulceDecorum on Tue Apr-06-04 01:24 PM
in your theory.

MercutioATC asks:
If the government did, in fact, engineer some vast conspiracy and substitute aircraft, why wouldn't they make the records reflect the "official story"?

ANSWER:
Why should they care?

05/18/03: (SFGate.com) The Department of Defense, already infamous for spending $640 for a toilet seat, once again finds itself under intense scrutiny, only this time because it couldn't account for more than a trillion dollars in financial transactions, not to mention dozens of tanks, missiles and planes.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3435.htm

If they have already managed to get away with "misplacing" 56
(yes FIFTY-SIX) military aircraft,
then what is a measly airliner here or there?

As for the trillion dollars.....
What the hell does one trillion dollars look like?
http://www.whereisthemoney.org /
What kind of mattresses do these guys have?
10429, This still simply a bookkeeping issue.
Posted by MercutioATC on Thu Apr-08-04 11:15 AM
United hasn't filed the paperwork. American did. It's as simple as that.

Those planes are in pieces...they're not flying around anywhere.
10136, Again???????
Posted by LARED on Sat Apr-03-04 01:26 PM
Why do you continue to ignore the most likely reason someone is not on the SSDI. No one told SS. The FACT that if you are missing from the SSDI list does not in any way mean you are alive has been pointed out more than once; yet you continue to blather on as if it material.

http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/ssdi/index.html#reasons

The SSDI does not include death records for everyone who has been issued a Social Security Number (card). Common reasons for exclusion include the following:

The death was not reported to the Social Security Administration (SSA).
The death occurred before the Death Master File was maintained in a computer database. About 98 percent of the deaths in this database occurred between 1962 and the present.
The person did not participate in the Social Security program.
Survivor death benefits were (are) being paid to dependents or spouse.
A recent death may not be indexed yet.
Human error. (Before you give up, read the section titled "Missing Entries in the SSDI.")
If you do not find a listing in the SSDI, it does not mean the person is still living, or that the Social Security Administration (SSA) has no records on the deceased. See "Contacting the SSA for Information" for instructions on requesting information on individuals not in the SSDI.
10146, What if
Posted by DulceDecorum on Sat Apr-03-04 03:37 PM
the deceased is still making SS payments?
Does that count as being alive?

Or does that simply mean that their employer never checks to see who has actually punched the clock and who hasn't done so for the last two and a half years?
10149, Ok, I'll bite
Posted by LARED on Sat Apr-03-04 03:55 PM
What are you talking about?
10137, This is not evidence for the existence of the planes.
Posted by Bolo Boffin on Sat Apr-03-04 01:38 PM
Here is the N-number page on
the FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION DATABASE.
http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/NNum_inquiry.asp
These are the results obtained by typing in the N-mumbers and Serial numbers
for the four planes of September 11, 2001.


N 334AA Flight 11 Serial 22332 Issued 1/6/2000 Registration: Cancelled 1/14/2002
N 644AA Flight 77 Serial 24602 Issued 5/8/1991 Registration: Cancelled 1/14/2002
N 591UA Flight 93 Serial 28142 Issued 7/1/1996 Registration: Valid
N 612UA Flight 175 Serial 21873 Issued 1/18/1984 Registration: Valid
http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/acmain.htm

Sec. 47.41 - Duration and return of Certificate.
(a) Each Certificate of Aircraft Registration issued by the FAA under this subpart is effective, unless suspended or revoked, UNTIL THE DATE UPON WHICH --
(2) The registration is canceled at the written request of the holder of the certificate;
(3) THE AIRCRAFT IS TOTALLY DESTROYED OR SCRAPPED;
(b) The Certificate of Aircraft Registration, with the reverse side completed, must be returned to the FAA Aircraft Registry --
(3) Upon the termination of the registration, by the holder of the Certificate of Aircraft Registration in all other cases mentioned in paragraph (a) of this section.
http://www.risingup.com/fars/info/part47-41-FAR.shtml

This is only evidence for the existence of the paperwork.

On September 11, 2001, all the above registrations became ineffective. Why? Because of item (a)(3) of Sec. 47.41.

How do I know that the aircraft were destroyed? Because the FAA says so.

http://www.faa.gov/avr/aai/D_0912_N.txt

Do over.