Open Discussion

[James H. Fetzer]

Sandy has suggested that we have a space for open discussion of topics that may be off-topic. That's fine with me. Let's see if the "Discussion" option will serve that purpose. Please give it a shot. Jim

[Thoth II]

a rant against survellaince:  today I have been upset by an incident that occurred over the weekend, it might seem small but the more I think, the more troubled I am.  I have been using google maps, satellite maps recently, and quite by serendipity came across a map of my relatives house that they built in about 1900 and no longer live there.  But I was expecting just a sattellite view, to my surprise, I found an actual closeup photo of that house and adjoining house, which I remember well growing up with.  What bothers me is, why the heck do they need closeup photos of all these old family homes, with all their nice memories?  I am suspicious these are not innocuous, I mean  , why all the expense and salaries for people to do this survellaince work?  Only if the intel agencies want a full dossier on all houses at least in America, so they can route any trouble makers out and can get the swat team immediately there if needed.  Maybe my imagination is running wild, but I just can't see why they need all this detailed info.  

[Jeannon Kralj]

Yes, they have every inch of land and every structure on every bit of land totally photographed and mapped.  I tried about a year ago using google maps  to get a look at a big house on Long Island and all I could get was an arial view of the roof and the pool.  Seems the front of the house was lined with a big fence and hedge so in the case of those huge mansions on long island, there apparently is no close up pic of the front of the house.

 

Up until about 25 years ago, there were areas in states that were not mapped nor in any county's property tax records, so people lived in the back woods for years in their homes and never paid a dime of property tax.  But that is no more, we are all under total surveillance.  Read book Spychips by Katherine Albreacht.  There is a plan and a goal and an agenda and it ain't pretty.

[Thoth II]

Jeannon, thank you and I'll try to read that book.  I have heard her talk on Noory's show and she is a good reporter.

 

 

[sandy rose]

and it is good that something in this FU life still makes us smile.

 

    don't never think that you hain't appreciated, Jeannon,...   ok?

 

    things are tough all over.  good to smile now and again. 

 

   

[sandy rose]

got this from clg!   sigh....wish we could all pitch in on this one!!!

(sorry for the gaggy picture....blech...)

 

• 

  Former US president George W. Bush speaks at a summit in Washington in September …

Amnesty Internationalon Thursday urged Ethiopia, Tanzania and Zambia to arrest former US president George W. Bush for violating international torture laws, during his African tour this week.

Bush is touring the countries through to Monday to promote efforts to fight cervical and breast cancers, and Amnesty said the three nations have an obligation to arrest him under international law.

"All countries to which George W. Bush travels have an obligation to bring him to justice for his role in torture," said Amnesty's senior legal adviser Matt Pollard.

"International law requires that there be no safe haven for those responsible for torture; Ethiopia, Tanzania and Zambia must seize this opportunity to fulfil their obligations and end the impunity George W. Bush has so far enjoyed."

"Amnesty International recognizes the value of raising awareness about cervical and breast cancer in Africa, the stated aim of the visit, but this cannot lessen the damage to the fight against torture caused by allowing someone who has admitted to authorising water-boarding to travel without facing the consequences prescribed by law," the group said in a statement.

Amnesty made a similar appeal to Canada in October when Bush visited British Columbia for an economic summit.

The group claimed Bush authorised the use of "enhanced interrogation techniques" and "waterboarding" on detainees held in secret by the Central Intelligence Agency between 2002 and 2009.

Amnesty's case relies on the public record, US documents obtained through access to information requests, Bush's own memoir and a Red Cross report critical of the US's war on terror policies.

Amnesty cites several instances of alleged torture of detainees at the Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, naval facility, in Afghanistan and in Iraq, by the US military.

The cases include that of Zayn al Abidin Muhammed Husayn (known as Abu Zubaydah) and 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, both arrested in Pakistan. The two men were waterboarded a total of 266 times from 2002 to 2003, according to the CIA inspector general, cited

 

(sandy notes, ..ironic about the "9/11 mastermind" part, eh?  ugg.

not that bash could have ever masterminded anything....)

 

 

[Jeannon Kralj]

""International law requires that there be no safe haven for those responsible for torture; Ethiopia, Tanzania and Zambia must seize this opportunity to fulfil their obligations "

 

Why do we the people of the USA give W. safe haven in the USA?  He ought to be in prison for life, not taking trouble making trips.

 

I am afraid we will watch the leaders of Ethiopia, Tanzania and Zambia give a warm public welcome to this cretin.  The evil that W. represents I fear has taken over the entire continent of Africa.

Bush does not travel to Canada because they may arrest him.  Kissinger knows better than to travel to certain countries.  Bush has purchased much land in South America and even in the Middle East, so I wonder if those nations and continents are giving safe harbor to the Bush family to possibly live there some day.

 

[sandy rose]

WHAT A BIG SURPRISE.  got this from clg.

     yeah, JUST IN CASE a military crisis erupts.   uggg, they are so

predictable it's nauseating.    i need to order that Northern Sun t-shirt

that says "i'm already against the next war!" 

 

U.S. troops quietly surge into Middle East

David S. Cloud, Tribune Co.

tribune co. January 13, 2012 04:00 AM Copyright tribune co.. All rights reserved. This material may not b... www.sfgate.com/MAI/ca20120113MNR11MOPB2.DTL/E/Prod" width="1" height="1"/>

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Washington --

The Pentagon has quietly shifted combat troops and warships to the Middle East after the top American commander in the region warned that he needed additional forces to deal with Iran and other potential threats, U.S. officials said.

Marine Corps Gen. James Mattis, who heads U.S. Central Command, won White House approval for the deployments late last year after talks with the government in Baghdad broke down over keeping U.S. troops in Iraq, but the extent of the Pentagon moves is only now becoming clear.

Officials said the deployments are not meant to suggest a buildup to war, but rather are intended as a quick-reaction and contingency force in case a military crisis erupts in the standoff with Tehran over its suspected nuclear weapons program.

The Pentagon has stationed nearly 15,000 troops in Kuwait, adding to a small contingent already there. The new units include two Army infantry brigades and a helicopter unit - a substantial increase in combat power after nearly a decade in which Kuwait chiefly served as a staging area for supplies and personnel heading to Iraq.

The Pentagon also has decided to keep two aircraft carriers and their strike groups in the region.

Earlier this week, the American carrier Carl Vinson joined the carrier Stennis in the Arabian Sea, giving commanders major naval and air assets in case Iran carries out its recent threats to close the Strait of Hormuz, a strategic chokepoint in the Persian Gulf, where one-fifth of the world's oil shipments passes.

This article appeared on page A - 3 of the San Francisco Chronicle

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/01/12/MNR11MO...

[Mark E. Smith]

There is no such thing as a peace vote. Delegating war powers to a capitalist imperialist government, no matter how persuasive the peace candidate may be, is a vote for war. War is the US economy. It's the only economy the US has. The way that 5% of the world's population (the US) enjoys 30% of the world's resources is by using the US military to deny people all over the planet the right to their own resources. Any threat by any country to nationalize their own resources is seen as a threat to US (actually private multinational corporate) interests.

If you are really opposed to war, don't vote.

[Jeannon Kralj]

"If you are really opposed to war, don't vote."

 

Yes, I am opposed to war and yes, not voting is a good way to affirm that, however, I am not voting because I believe if enough people refrain from voting, it will send a clear message that we think the entire electoral process is a huge set-up and manipulation and all of our "choices" are equally evil.

 

Also, we should in every way possible tell the truth to young people and encourage them not to ever enlist in the military and not to work for the mercenaries.  Shun and ostracize all who support the military.  War is a racket.

 

"You give me a couple of election commissioners and I'll make those lever machines sing Home Sweet Home."

 Huey P. Long, circa 1931

[Thoth II]

right, and I tell the young all the time to not lie down with the corporate snake or it'll bite them and their grandchildren.; i tell them not to buy its products or work for its slave wages, I tell them to reinvent the world with organic productions like the indians had.

The media, govt., are just whores of the corporate elite, banksters, zionists, and royalty.  

[sandy rose]

dick cheney gets new heart.

 

    we never knew he had one to begin with.,..

[sandy rose]

high, people, and regular commisserations on this uh day.

     i got this from bud Kevin Barrett, love ya, Kev, and thought i would

share here since he mentioned nine elevendy and all.  thanks, Kev!!!!@

 

would love to see Kev show up here on this group.  a credit to our ranks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Greetings,

 

I'm now a staff writer at Press TV as well as Veterans Today. I think my first three Press TV articles put me neck-and-neck with Paul Craig Roberts as the most subversive op-ed writer working in English. See if you don't agree: http://www.presstv.ir/Contributors/247897.html

 

My radio show has recently featured discussions about the future of 9/11 truth with Adam Syed, Eric Sayward of We Are Change, Sander Hicks, and Mark Gaffney; John Bursill and James Hufferd will soon present competing views.  Wayne Madsen recently explained why Obama is our first CIA-manufactured-and-inserted "president." And Islamic scholar and 9/11 truth advocate Imran Hosein, and "Mad Pride" advocate Dr. Seth Farber, are coming up… Details: http://www.TruthJihadRadio.blogspot.com

 

Note: Sander Hicks will be speaking in Madison, WI on August 1st…details forthcoming.  His national tour dates: http://sanderhicks.com/tourdates.html

 

Happy Independence Day if you want it!

 

Be well,

 

Kevin Barrett

 

 

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/07/04/249258/occupied-us-celebrates-independence-day/

 

Occupied US celebrates Independence Day

Statue of Liberty in New York

Wed Jul 4, 2012 5:42AM GMT

22

By Kevin Barrett

 

On July 4th, Americans celebrate their nation's independence. But today, July 4th, 2012, the USA is no longer a free and independent nation.

The USA today is occupied by an array of hostile forces even more nefarious than the British crown.

We are occupied by the Zionists, who control the media, Congress, and the White House. Our top layers of government are infested by US-Israeli dual citizens. They cannot be accused of dual loyalties, since it is so obvious where their one and only loyalty really lies.

We are occupied by the banksters, who have squeezed more than 20 trillion dollars in bailouts out of our economy during the past four years, paving Wall Street with gold and leaving Main Street on life-support.

We are occupied by the military-industrial complex and its police state, which has murdered our greatest leaders, and with them our democracy.

We are occupied by the 1%, the super-rich who have seized power and re-written the rules in order to make their lives easier, and ours more difficult.

We are occupied by the biggest corporations, which have assumed total control of our political process via last year's Citizens United case.

Two hundred thirty-six years ago, the USA's Founding Fathers wrote:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. - That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, - That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government…

Could it be any more obvious that the US government today is "destructive of these ends"?

Think about it.

"All men are created equal." Yet today, a child born in the USA to poor parents has no rights at all, and little hope for the future; while the President of the USA claims the right to extra-judicially kidnap, torture, and/or assassinate anyone he wishes. Poor kids are used as sex slaves by a pedophile ring that includes the top of the CIA, FBI, Executive Branch, The New York Times, Washington Post, and just about every other major institution, while bankster kids get million-dollar trust funds. (For details on the USA's pedophile elite, read Nick Bryant's The Franklin Scandal.) And while the 99% struggles, the 1% struggles to figure out what to do with all their money. You call that equality?

"Endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights…" Yet today, the US government says its citizens have no rights whatsoever; anyone can be assassinated at any time by order of the President and his Murder Committee, without any judicial process. The rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights are dead letters in the post-9/11 USA.

"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." The US government says it can take away citizens' lives and liberty any time, for any reason, without any explanation. Just call that citizen a "terror suspect." And as for the "pursuit of happiness," the 99 percent gets poorer every day, while the 1% gets richer.

"Deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…" In today's USA, there is no longer any consent of the governed. Black-box voting machines determine the outcome of rigged elections. Every president since Bush I has been CIA, and appointed by the CIA. The population is poisoned with fluoride in the water, heavy metals and polymer fibers in the air, corn syrup and GMOs in the food, mercury in the vaccines, and toxic lies in the media. There is more consent of the governed in Orwell's fictional 1984 than in the real 2012 USA.

And to top it off, it was the highest officials of our own government, along with Israelis, who murdered 3,000 of us on 9/11 in order to murder millions more in unnecessary wars abroad and establish a police state at home.

As the Founders wrote: "Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government…"

Can anyone seriously doubt that the Second American Revolution is long overdue?

Today, let us declare our independence from international Zionism and its criminal headquarters, the so-called State of Israel, by arresting the unregistered agents of that foreign power, including all politicians who have taken even one penny from AIPAC.

Let us declare our independence from the banksters by arresting them for fraud (a.k.a. “fractional reserve lending”), re-criminalizing usury, and making banks public utilities rather than private parasites.

Let us declare our independence from the military-industrial complex by completely ending secrecy, publishing all “national security secrets” on the internet, arresting the 9/11 perpetrators and cover-up facilitators, and reducing the military budget by 99% as we return to a defend-the-borders posture.

Let us declare our independence from the super-rich by pillaging them until they are no longer super-rich, and then creating a system under which extreme inequality can never again arise.

Let us declare our independence from corporate slavery by abolishing corporate personhood, busting up all big corporations, and re-writing the rules to favor small enterprises and hinder large ones.

These changes would amount to a Second American Revolution that would fulfill the promises of the first.

The wisest of the Founding Fathers, Thomas Jefferson, said: “Every generation needs a new revolution.”

It has been a little over ten generations since the last American Revolution. The next one will happen as soon as the American people realize what has been done to them - and that it doesn't have to be that way.

 

Kevin Barrett

Staff Writer, VeteransToday: http://www.veteranstoday.com/author/barrett/      PressTV.com:  

http://www.presstv.ir/Contributors/247897.html

Radio Journalist, AmericanFreedomRadio.com, NoLiesRadio.org

Website: www.TruthJihad.com