9/11 Scholars Forum

Exposing Falsehoods and Revealing Truths

Sandy has suggested that we have a space for open discussion of topics that may be off-topic. That's fine with me. Let's see if the "Discussion" option will serve that purpose. Please give it a shot. Jim

Views: 3001

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

I often think of that, Thoth. If not for COINTELPRO, Fred Hampton, Assata Shakur, or Mumia Abu Jamal could have been President, just as Dilma Rousseff is now President of Brazil. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioR6hBv0DY8&feature=related

 

America's best and brightest were deliberately destroyed by our FBI, CIA, and corporate rulers. JFK and RFK were only two of many. But at least in those days it was ostensibly covert, whereas now we have a President who openly claims the right to assassinate American citizens. 

 

I had been saying that our system is totally and inherently corrupt, and must be opposed rather than merely reformed. But then Jacob Appelbaum tweeted that "Out of the Night" by Jan Valtin may turn out to be his favorite book, so I got it from the library. It seems that in pre-WWII Germany, both the Communists and the Nazis had correctly identified nonviolent liberals and progressives as the biggest obstacle to revolution, so instead of fighting each other they joined forces to disrupt and destroy the liberals. Once the reformist sector was out of the way, the Communists and Nazis were free to fight each other, and of course the Nazis won.

 

History may be repeating here. Personally, I've never advocated violent revolution. I advocate nonviolent revolution, by means of withdrawing our consent to be governed by people we can't hold accountable: not voting.

 

Unfortunately, so many Americans had to fight for the right to vote that it seems to escape half the electorate (the half that still votes) that if the powers that be don't like the results of an election, they can simply nullify it, as the Supreme Court did in 2000. If the popular vote isn't the final say, it is merely a referendum, not an actual election.

 

However, even if the popular vote was the final say, the right to select the people you can petition for redress of grievances, who are then free to ignore your petitions, is still tyranny, not democracy.

 

 

Please resubmit videos for approval.  I inadvertently

deleted videos that I was planning to approve.  So if

you can resubmit, I will try to review them promptly.

got this from war is a crime.org.   tee hee!!

 

 

Human Rights Groups Announce Bush Indictment for Convention Against...


No Immunity for Former Presidents Under Law

February 7, 2011, Geneva and New York – Today, two torture victims were to have filed criminal complaints, with more than 2,500-pages of supporting material, in Geneva against former U.S. President George W. Bush, who was due to speak at an event there on 12 February. Swiss law requires the presence of the torturer on Swiss soil before a preliminary investigation can be opened. When Bush cancelled his trip to avoid prosecution, the human rights groups who prepared the complaints made it public and announced that the Bush Torture Indictment would be waiting wherever he travels next. The Indictment serves as the basis on which to prepare country-specific, plaintiff-specific indictments, with additional evidence and updated information. According to international law experts at the New York-based Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) and the Berlin-based European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights (ECCHR), former presidents do not enjoy special immunity under the Convention Against Torture (CAT).

“Waterboarding is torture, and Bush has admitted, without any sign of remorse, that he approved its use,” said Katherine Gallagher, Senior Staff Attorney at CCR and Vice President of the International Federation for Human Rights (FIDH). “The reach of the Convention Against Torture is wide – this case is prepared and will be waiting for him wherever he travels next. Torturers – even if they are former presidents of the United States – must be held to account and prosecuted. Impunity for Bush must end.”

While the U.S. has thus far failed to comply with its obligations under the Convention Against Torture to prosecute and punish those who commit torture, all other signatories, too, are obligated to prosecute or extradite for prosecution anyone present in their territory they have a reasonable basis for believing has committed torture. If the evidence warrants, as the Bush Torture Indictment contends it does, and the U.S. fails to request the extradition of Bush and others to face charges of torture there, CAT signatories must, under law, prosecute them for torture.

In a statement this weekend, the groups who organized the complaints said, “Whatever Bush or his hosts say, we have no doubt he cancelled his trip to avoid our case. The message from civil society is clear – If you’re a torturer, be careful in your travel plans.”

The complaints that had been scheduled to be filed on Monday asked that the General Prosecutor of the Canton of Geneva investigate allegations that men were tortured as part of the Bush administration’s well-documented torture program. Bush proudly recounted in his recently published memoir that when asked in 2002 to if it was permissible to waterboard a detainee – a recognized act of torture – he replied “damn right.”

Monday, 7 February, is the ninth anniversary of the day Bush decided the Geneva Conventions did not apply to ‘enemy combatants.’

According to the Bush Indictment, which was written on behalf of torture victims by CCR and ECCHR, former President Bush bears individual and command responsibility for the acts of his subordinates which he ordered, authorized, condoned or otherwise aided and abetted, as well as for the violations committed by his subordinates which he failed to prevent or punish.

“Bush is a torturer and deserves to be remembered as such,” said Gavin Sullivan, Solicitor and Counterterrorism Program Manager, ECCHR. “He bears ultimate responsibility for authorizing the torture of thousands of individuals at places like Guantánamo and secret CIA ‘black sites’ around the world. As all states are obliged to prosecute such torturers, Bush has good reason to be very worried.”

CCR, ECCHR and FIDH were joined by more than 60 human rights organizations and prominent individuals who signed on to support the call for George W. Bush’s prosecution, including former UN Special Rapporteur on Torture, Theo van Boven, former UN Special Rapporteur on Independence of Judges and Lawyers, Leandro Despouy, and Nobel Peace Prize recipients Shirin Ebadi and Pérez Esquivel. A number of the human rights organizations which signed on are facing the on-going harms of the “counterterrorism” policies advanced under the Bush administration and then adopted or employed in their own countries..The complaint included 2500 pages of supporting materials.

Manfred Nowak, former UN Special Rapporteur on Torture (2004-2010), was to submit an expert opinion on the complaints concluding that the conduct to which both plaintiffs were subjected constitutes torture, that Switzerland had an obligation to open a preliminary investigation, and that George W. Bush enjoys no immunity.

The Bush Torture Indictment, the official “letter of denunciation” summarizing the case and other materials are available here: http://ccrjustice.org/ourcases/current-cases/bush-torture-indictment.

The Center for Constitutional Rights, in addition to filing the first cases representing men detained at Guantánamo, has filed universal jurisdiction cases seeking accountability for torture by Bush administration officials in Germany, France and submitted expert opinions and other documentation to ongoing cases in Spain in collaboration with ECCHR. The Center for Constitutional Rights is dedicated to advancing and protecting the rights guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Founded in 1966 by attorneys who represented civil rights movements in the South, CCR is a non-profit legal and educational organization committed to the creative use of law as a positive force for social change. Visit www.ccrjustice.org. Follow @theCCR.

The European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights (ECCHR) is an independent, non-profit legal organization that enforces human rights by holding state and non-state actors to account for egregious abuses through innovative strategic litigation. For more information visit www.ecchr.eu

The International Federation of Human Rights (FIDH) is a non-governmental federation for 164 human rights organizations. FIDH’s core mandate is to promote respect for all the rights set out in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. Its priority areas include protecting human rights defenders and fighting impunity. For more information on FIDH, see www.fidh.org.



sandy rose said:

got this from war is a crime.org.   tee hee!!

 

 

Human Rights Groups Announce Bush Indictment for Convention Against...



No Immunity for Former Presidents Under Law

February 7, 2011, Geneva and New York – Today, two torture victims were to have filed criminal complaints, with more than 2,500-pages of supporting material, in Geneva against former U.S. President George W. Bush, who was due to speak at an event there on 12 February. Swiss law requires the presence of the torturer on Swiss soil before a preliminary investigation can be opened. When Bush cancelled his trip to avoid prosecution, the human rights groups who prepared the complaints made it public and announced that the Bush Torture Indictment would be waiting wherever he travels next. The Indictment serves as the basis on which to prepare country-specific, plaintiff-specific indictments, with additional evidence and updated information. According to international law experts at the New York-based Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) and the Berlin-based European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights (ECCHR), former presidents do not enjoy special immunity under the Convention Against Torture (CAT).

“Waterboarding is torture, and Bush has admitted, without any sign of remorse, that he approved its use,” said Katherine Gallagher, Senior Staff Attorney at CCR and Vice President of the International Federation for Human Rights (FIDH). “The reach of the Convention Against Torture is wide – this case is prepared and will be waiting for him wherever he travels next. Torturers – even if they are former presidents of the United States – must be held to account and prosecuted. Impunity for Bush must end.”

While the U.S. has thus far failed to comply with its obligations under the Convention Against Torture to prosecute and punish those who commit torture, all other signatories, too, are obligated to prosecute or extradite for prosecution anyone present in their territory they have a reasonable basis for believing has committed torture. If the evidence warrants, as the Bush Torture Indictment contends it does, and the U.S. fails to request the extradition of Bush and others to face charges of torture there, CAT signatories must, under law, prosecute them for torture.

In a statement this weekend, the groups who organized the complaints said, “Whatever Bush or his hosts say, we have no doubt he cancelled his trip to avoid our case. The message from civil society is clear – If you’re a torturer, be careful in your travel plans.”

The complaints that had been scheduled to be filed on Monday asked that the General Prosecutor of the Canton of Geneva investigate allegations that men were tortured as part of the Bush administration’s well-documented torture program. Bush proudly recounted in his recently published memoir that when asked in 2002 to if it was permissible to waterboard a detainee – a recognized act of torture – he replied “damn right.”

Monday, 7 February, is the ninth anniversary of the day Bush decided the Geneva Conventions did not apply to ‘enemy combatants.’

According to the Bush Indictment, which was written on behalf of torture victims by CCR and ECCHR, former President Bush bears individual and command responsibility for the acts of his subordinates which he ordered, authorized, condoned or otherwise aided and abetted, as well as for the violations committed by his subordinates which he failed to prevent or punish.

“Bush is a torturer and deserves to be remembered as such,” said Gavin Sullivan, Solicitor and Counterterrorism Program Manager, ECCHR. “He bears ultimate responsibility for authorizing the torture of thousands of individuals at places like Guantánamo and secret CIA ‘black sites’ around the world. As all states are obliged to prosecute such torturers, Bush has good reason to be very worried.”

CCR, ECCHR and FIDH were joined by more than 60 human rights organizations and prominent individuals who signed on to support the call for George W. Bush’s prosecution, including former UN Special Rapporteur on Torture, Theo van Boven, former UN Special Rapporteur on Independence of Judges and Lawyers, Leandro Despouy, and Nobel Peace Prize recipients Shirin Ebadi and Pérez Esquivel. A number of the human rights organizations which signed on are facing the on-going harms of the “counterterrorism” policies advanced under the Bush administration and then adopted or employed in their own countries..The complaint included 2500 pages of supporting materials.

Manfred Nowak, former UN Special Rapporteur on Torture (2004-2010), was to submit an expert opinion on the complaints concluding that the conduct to which both plaintiffs were subjected constitutes torture, that Switzerland had an obligation to open a preliminary investigation, and that George W. Bush enjoys no immunity.

The Bush Torture Indictment, the official “letter of denunciation” summarizing the case and other materials are available here: http://ccrjustice.org/ourcases/current-cases/bush-torture-indictment.

The Center for Constitutional Rights, in addition to filing the first cases representing men detained at Guantánamo, has filed universal jurisdiction cases seeking accountability for torture by Bush administration officials in Germany, France and submitted expert opinions and other documentation to ongoing cases in Spain in collaboration with ECCHR. The Center for Constitutional Rights is dedicated to advancing and protecting the rights guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Founded in 1966 by attorneys who represented civil rights movements in the South, CCR is a non-profit legal and educational organization committed to the creative use of law as a positive force for social change. Visit www.ccrjustice.org. Follow @theCCR.

The European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights (ECCHR) is an independent, non-profit legal organization that enforces human rights by holding state and non-state actors to account for egregious abuses through innovative strategic litigation. For more information visit www.ecchr.eu

The International Federation of Human Rights (FIDH) is a non-governmental federation for 164 human rights organizations. FIDH’s core mandate is to promote respect for all the rights set out in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. Its priority areas include protecting human rights defenders and fighting impunity. For more information on FIDH, see www.fidh.org.

 

 

KInd of wished they'd showed a little cunning and not filed the charges until Bush was on the plane headed for Switzerland. 

I have just added more than 20 new members.  Let me know if any of them are inappropriate.  Many thanks!  Jim
Cheney heckled at CPAC?
Called a WAR CRIMINAL!

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/paul-backers-crash-cheney-rumsfe...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ucaI-i26fY&feature=player_embedded

I will say hi to David for you the next time I see him outside Rep. Hurt's office ;-}

Peace, Sha

I am sad today.

 

Algeria and Yemen tried to emulate the Egyptian revolution. But they didn't have the connectivity or the expertise. One naive person Tweeted that since they have a repressive government, they need to use nonviolence because the government can't handle that. Of course it can. Repressive governments simply arrest, beat, or kill protesters, violent or nonviolent. In Egypt the revolutionaries expected that. They outnumbered the cops and fought back when attacked. But they were only able to do that because of their numbers and because the army didn't slaughter them. Both Algeria and Yemen lack the numbers and there doesn't appear to be any armed government group that is either on their side, neutral, or at least unwilling to attack them. When there are 30,000 cops, all happy to use violence against 3,000 nonviolent protesters, nonviolence isn't going to prevail. Not even if it is videoed and blogged to the world. Massive numbers of foreigners may feel sympathetic, but we're not able to invade. 

 

And then there's the problem with Egypt. Obama insisted on elections and the Army is putting itself in charge of the elections. Meet President-For-Life ElBaradei, sent especially from the United States so that the CIA could rig the election to ensure that somebody the U.S. can control is in charge.

 

Not to mention the people who are still petitioning Obama, as if they never heard him and Hillary say clearly that they do not allow public opinion to influence their decisions. And the people who think that as long as they can vote for people who won't listen to them and can't be held accountable, they live in a democratic form of government. And persist in that belief even when their votes aren't counted or when the elections are rigged so that the only candidates with any chance of winning at all, have the exact same pro-war, pro-bailout, anti-democracy agenda.

 

Petitions to genuinely democratic countries and institutions are great, and I like that Bush and Livni are afraid to travel to certain countries for fear of being arrested, but of course the top war criminals in the US and Israel have the option of just not traveling to such countries. 

 

Obama was pathetic, supporting Mubarak until after Mubarak had stepped down, and then trying to find somebody on his staff who understood democracy and could write a speech for him that would seem halfway credible. But his insistence on defining democracy as free and fair elections was the poison pill in that little speech. The United States has never had free and fair elections and we never will until and unless we get a brand new Constitution that ensures that all votes are counted, that they are counted in such a way as to be completely verifiable, that we, rather than political party superdelegates and big money donors can choose who gets on the ballot, that all candidates have equal funding and equal media coverage, and that neither the candidates themselves, the Electoral College, Congress, the Supreme Court, nor anything else in the universe, can overrule the will of the people, and that only the popular vote alone determines the results of the election. Obama won't allow free and fair elections in Honduras or Haiti, so why would anyone think he'd allow them in Egypt? Either the CIA will rig the elections to ensure that the candidate Obama wants will win, or the U.S. will condemn the election as not being free and fair. Denying the CIA the right to spend millions or even billions of dollars ensuring that their preferred candidate gets elected, would be considered unfair by Obama. After all, corporations can put as much money as they want into elections here, so our government insists that unless other countries do the same, they are violating the human rights of non-human corporations. 

 

Thanks for allowing me to vent. An open topic is a lifesaver at times.

"The United States has never had free and fair elections and we never will until and unless we get a brand new Constitution that ensures that all votes are counted, that they are counted in such a way as to be completely verifiable, that we, rather than political party superdelegates and big money donors can choose who gets on the ballot, that all candidates have equal funding and equal media coverage, and that neither the candidates themselves, the Electoral College, Congress, the Supreme Court, nor anything else in the universe, can overrule the will of the people, and that only the popular vote alone determines the results of the election."  

Keep venting, you are right on and great truths like these will not be stopped. I would start with the media who sap the peoples will and keep them endlessly distracted. The internet is our Constitution and you are participating in writing it.

 

Thanks, Shallel. The only thing better than writing what I feel needs to be said, is to have somebody read and appreciate it.

 

I wonder if the youth of Egypt wrote a draft of their new Constitution, to be voted on by the people, of course, before they began the revolution. It wouldn't surprise me. Have you seen their connectivity map?

 

http://www.kovasboguta.com/1/post/2011/02/first-post.html

 

Freakin' awesome!

 

Oh yeah, the United States is already setting aside money to use to support "secular" (read "Pro-Israel") political parties and candidates in Egypt. How free and fair is an election if a foreign country pours millions of dollars into influencing it?

 

This week an incident happened that just makes me more convinced how much effect the TV and mass media have eroded at people's psyche .  We were at the Minneapolis airport in town for a family event and a lady I didn't know heard us in line and introduced herself.  She said she was in town for the same reason and was from Tucson.  I started mentioning to her all the good times and things I've done there, but she cut me off after about a minute and just wanted to talk about the Tucson shooter.  I never brought the subject up, she did, like she was guilty about it, that it disparaged her town and she had to apologize for it.  By the end, I assured her all I had in mind was how great I thought Tucson was and the shooter was the farthest thing from my mind.  But I realized that this woman was reeked with guilt over something that the media has been hyping and she had nothing to do with.  It ruined a perfectly nice moment and opportunity.  And it very likely was another mind controlled robot like Sirhan to boot.  These intelligence people are cutting the soul out of this country, and people at this forum understand that this problem goes back at least to JFK.  I'm glad at least people hear understand what is going on.


Even popular events, like what it happening in Wisconsin, seem to be preplanned to divide people or are hijacked to divide people. Most see a struggle between the Republican agenda and the Democratic agenda, when in fact it is a struggle between the oligarchy and the people.

 

No sane, responsible adult would delegate their power to, and grant their consent to be governed by, people they can't hold accountable, yet that's exactly what half of all Americans do every election. Then, when they find themselves betrayed, they vow to try to elect different people who can't be held accountable. Not only can't voters hold their elected officials accountable, but sometimes they don't even know what they're doing. Nobody knows who put a secret hold on the whistle-blower protection act. A campaign to ask each Senator has it narrowed down to only five who wouldn't say it wasn't them. But if anyone thinks that a Senator wouldn't lie, they aren't very familiar with US politics.

 

Even those who cast third party or protest votes are consenting to a system that doesn't represent their interests, because it isn't about the person on the ballot, it is about the system they are seeking power in, and will become a part of if elected. A hierarchical, undemocratic system cannot be changed from within because it answers only to those at the top, not to those at the bottom.

 

Democrat and Republican are the main sects of America. In Middle Eastern countries, revolutionary people have stood together and said, "Muslim, Christian, we are all Egyptian," or "Sunni, Shia, we are all Bahraini," but Americans will never stand together and say, "Democrat, Republican, we are all Americans." So the corporate ruling class can continue to destroy our economy with no fear of worker uprisings, as the anger will be directed against one of the two corporate-funded political sects, rather than against the oligarchy that funds all major parties.

 

The Tea Party are ignorant, selfish, easily manipulated thugs and opportunists, the Republicans tend to be the managerial class, but seeing intelligent nurses and teachers loyal to the Democratic Party whose wars and ever-expanding military budgets with little or no oversight are the real reason for this country's economic problems, is tragic. 

nice follow up on our big valentine to Spain!!   from Shallel's bud David

Swanson and war is a crime.   (we got i think over 8,400 signers!  go people!)

 

image

 

 

WarIsACrime.org

Spain Hears You, Bush Can Sleep Less Easily

The Spanish government's representatives appreciated the support you gave them earlier this month, thanking and encouraging Spain to prosecute U.S. war criminals.  A report is here on what we did. The Spanish media spread the word
 
Now comes a report from the Center for Constitutional Rights that suggests Spain may be listening:

February 25, 2011, New York – In response to news that the full panel of Judges of the Audencia Nacional (Spain’s High Court) rejected a Spanish prosecutor’s effort to stop an investigation into the role of  US officials for torture on Guantanamo, the Center for Constitutional Rights, which has submitted many papers in this and a related case in Spain, released the following statement:
 
This is a monumental decision that will enable a Spanish judge to continue a case on the “authorized and systematic plan of torture and ill treatment” by U.S. officials at Guantanamo. Geoffrey Miller, the former commanding officer at Guantánamo, has already been implicated, and the case will surely move up the chain of command. Since the U.S. government has not only failed to investigate the illegal actions of its own officials and, according to diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks,  also sought to interfere in the Spanish judicial process and stop the case from proceeding, this will be the first real investigation of the U.S. torture program. This is a victory for accountability and a blow against impunity. The Center for Constitutional Rights applauds the Spanish courts for not bowing to political pressure and for undertaking what may be the most important investigation in decades.  
 
For more information and filings related to the Spanish cases, both the above torture case and the Bush 6 case looking into the role of the lawyers in the torture program, visit the Spanish case page on the Center for Constitutional Rights web site.
 

If you have not yet signed the letter to Spain or donated to this campaign, please go here!

 

Other Ways to Get Active:
http://warisacrime.org/content/upcoming-events

Reply to Discussion

RSS

© 2022   Created by James H. Fetzer.   Powered by

Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service