Exposing Falsehoods and Revealing Truths
|Date:||Fri, 21 Jan 2011 19:26:51 -0500 [01/21/2011 06:26:51 PM CST]|
|Date:||Fri, 21 Jan 2011 22:48:35 -0500 [01/21/2011 09:48:35 PM CST]|
Ron, your statement is incorect. A pilot is prevented from operating anairplane 'well
past its operating limits by 'drag rise' which must be demonstrated before certifcation.
An airliner, to be certificated, must demonstrate that after it passesMmo or Vmo (airspeed limits)
in the case of the Boeing 767 360 KIAS (knots indicated airspeed) to pitch up. Itmust be demosntrated
that the pilot cannot force the nose down even with trim.
If the airplane does not have an inherent pitch up then the manufacturer(such is the case
in a Lear Jet) must install a 'stick puller' which pulls the nose up if it exceeds Vmo orMmo.
The only way to make the puller stop pulling is to slow the airplane down.
No aeronautical engineer will ever say that an 'airplane can be operatedwell past its safe limits'.
As I explained to Lawson many, many times. I also explained it to Mackey but he never responded.
As a matter of fact Mackey never responded to any of my questions where I caught him lieing through
his teeth with aeronautical gibberish, which sounds logical but isn't. Mackey is not an aeronautical
engineer or a rocket scientist. He has a degree in Mathematics and Physics but that does not qualify
him to comment on fundamental or advanced aeronautical engineering facts.
The Boeing 767 Vd is 420 kts. which I have stated many, many times is a speed which the airplane
MAY NOT INHERENTLY EXCEED during 'upset' tests where the airplane, for certification is put in a
dive at 360 kts and must recover without exceeding 420kts. Lawson argued that the 420 kts could
be exceeded by a 'safety factor' which is incorrect. 'The safety factor' is the speed between 360 kts
If you want to debate aeronautic engineering I might suggest that youpurchase a copy of any available
books on aeronautical engineering and not try to pull answers out of your hat or quote Mackey. Mackey
is very talented at 'cherry picking' points and mixing apples with oranges.
On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 6:23 PM, Ronald Wieck wrote:
How many times will aeronautical engineers explain to you that the plane can
be operated well past its safe limits if the pilot is willing to risk damage
to the fuselage and jeopardize the safety of the passengers? Seriously, how
often must we go through this?
Nobody died on 911 in any of those 4 planes. As a matter of fact Isuspect
Chic Burlingame [who piloted the plane that flew toward the Pentagon but
then swerved over it] is alive, well, working for Cheney and reading these threads.
On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 9:23 PM, Ronald Wieck wrote:
|Date:||Sat, 22 Jan 2011 00:39:39 -0500 [01/21/2011 11:39:39 PM CST]|
Yes. Above 25,000 feet but not below. .8 mach at sea level is about 530kts. about
110 knots over Vd and 170 kts over Vmo (360 kts.)
As to Jeffs coversation with Boeing the lady NO it cannot do 530 kts atsea level.
Apparently you haven't followed very closely and don't understand basicaeronautical
The 767 is certificated to .86 at cruise level, considerably more than.8.
And no, the pilot cannot just push the throttles up because they arealready at the stops
at 360 kts. If he trys to go faster by diving the airplane will pitchup.
The best way to get out of a hole is to stop digging. :)
On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Ronald Wieck wrote:
Please stop. We've been through this many times. All the aeronautical
engineers contacted by Jeff Hill agreed with Mackey who stated thatBoeing
airliners could be flown at speeds above .8 Mach, assuming the pilotdoesn't
care about damage to the plane or the safety of the passengers.
Ron, I could be wrong but the numbers can't be.
The numbers are 360 and 420.
Check it out! :)
On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 10:20 PM, Ronald Wieck wrote:
An important point: There is no possibility of you ever acknowledging error.
The rest of the world can be wrong, but you can never be wrong. You lie,
make up nonsense, slander innocent Americans, but you are always right.
You are quite mad