Open Discussion

[James H. Fetzer]

Sandy has suggested that we have a space for open discussion of topics that may be off-topic. That's fine with me. Let's see if the "Discussion" option will serve that purpose. Please give it a shot. Jim

[sandy rose]

wow, thanks, Lee for all the info. don't suppose your computer had any
help freezing!?
yeah, i put nothing past 'them' whatsoever. even child sacrifices just
for kicks. some mighty sick puppies we're talking about. whoa, that was
a big insult to puppies.
years back i looked into a bunch of really freaky stuff about their weirdo
club, bohemian grove, i'm thinking, not sure if that was the name, where they
would all gather at some hideout in california i think it was and do weird stuff
and worship a giant owl and did something they called cremation of care,
or something with 'MOCK' sacrifices. i had the chilling feeling when i learned
all of that weird stuff that the sacrifices may have not been all that mock.

wow, freaky about alll the 'suicides'. as gross as the stuff is that they're
into, is it worth committing suicide over? or maybe they're just deathly afraid
of what might happen to em behind bars. pos. (pieces of shit). or maybe
like i implied earlier the top pigs find it more useful to just put them out of their
misery.

very interesting, thanks for your input!

when i find the time i'm gonna search a bit about the suicides, etc.

[Dean]

I have a question I would like to submit as a poll for anyone who wants to answer:

What is the most important issue for the 9/11 research community to investigate right now and why

[Dean]

9/11 Scholars Forum Survey Answers:

1) 9/11 was an inside job where the Administration made it happen.
2) The videos are authentic.
3) The "collapse" of the Twin Towers was a mixture of demolitions and other devices.
4) The collapse of Building 7 was brought down by controlled demolition
5) The Pentagon attack involved a plane that flew right over it but did not strike it.
6) There was no crash at Shanksville. Evidence was planted there and all other sites.
7) Some passengers wound up in Cleveland as part of Flight 175; others landed safely in Pennsylvania as part of Flight 93. The other "flights" were phony and fake names were used for most of the passengers on the real flights.
8) The most important thing the 9/11 research community can do is decide which issues are really worth debating. Because the official theory alleges flights, hijackers and crashes into buildings, the best thing to do is to assert that these things did not happen and that the govt. has lied to us. Many issues like what caused WTC buildings to come down will noever come to a consensus in our community.

[Donald Edward Stahl]

9/11 Scholars Forum
Exposing Falsehoods and Revealing Truths

A message to all members of 9/11 Scholars Forum
All,

Sandy Rose has suggested that it might be appropriate to conduct a survey of the members of the forum to determine where we stand individually and collectively. So here are some questions for you. Please post your response on the "Open Discussion" page, where they can be discussed by each of us in relation to each other.

(1) 9/11 was

(a) a terrorist act ---Agree
(i) involving 19 Islamic fundamentalists
(ii) directed by Osama bin Landen from his cave
(b) an inside job where ---Agree
(i) the administration "let it happen" ---Agree
(ii) the administration "made it happen" ---Agree

(2) The videos are
(a) authentic ---Agree
(b) faked
(i) flying what'sits at the North Tower
(ii) CGIs, compositing, or holograms at the South

(3) The "collapse" of the Twin Towers
(i) actually happened as the official account claims
(ii) represented a demolition under control
(a) using thermite and conventional explosives ---Agree
(b) using unconventional methods, such as mini-nukes or some kind of directed-energy devices ---Don'tKnow

(4) The collapse of Building 7
(a) was collateral damage from the destruction of the Twin Towers
(b) was arranged and brought down by a classic controlled demolition ---Agree

(5) The Pentagon attack
(a) really took place with a Boeing 757 hitting the building
(b) involved a fly-over by a Boeing 757 which did not hit the building ---Don'tKnow
(c) involved a second, smaller plane that may have fired a missile into the building ---Don'tKnow

(6) The Shanksville crash
(a) occurred just as the government has claimed (into a mining shaft or whatever)
(b) did not occur at all and is just as phony as the rest of the official story ---Agree

(7) What happened to the passengers? ---Don'tKnow
(a) they were killed in the plane crashes
(b) they were kidnapped and are in undisclosed secret locations
(c) they were mostly fabricated, just as fake as the rest of the official account

Please us this as an outline in submitting your comments in the "Open Discussion" forum and, as others show up, take some time to think about what others have said and why you agree or disagree about their views on these crucial issues. If you feel inclined, add a paragraph about where the movement should go from here.

Many thanks!

Jim

What did happen in all its particularity is less important than the fact that the world was lied to and continues to (pretend to) believe that lie. This is what can be established beyond any doubt, and is quite enough grounds for proceeding to act on its basis. I imagine many people are delighted to see us quibble instead of act. ---Donald Stahl

[Shallel Octavia]

(1) 9/11 was:
(ii) the administration "made it happen" - war games, radar inserts, unconventional weapons, crime scene violation, and foreknowledge implicates the Defense Department, Cheney in his bunker, Giuliani, and THE MEDIA!

(2) The videos are
(b) faked - badly! arrest the media first!

(3) The "collapse" of the Twin Towers
(b) using unconventional methods - How much conventional explosives would it take to pulverize everything including steel? How could you hide the blinding flash of a nuclear weapon? Even cold fusion gives off copious light. Debris pile way too small, where is the 200,000 tons of structural steel?

(4) The collapse of Building 7
(b) was arranged and brought down by a classic controlled demolition or dropped in a hollowed out space beneath the building. at least there is an appropriate debris pile when compared to known CD's

(5) The Pentagon attack
(b) (may have) involved a fly-over by a Boeing 757 which did not hit the building ... and explosives, smudge pots, perhaps a missile.

(6) The Shanksville crash
(b) did not occur at all and is just as phony as the rest of the official story ... this is the silliest part of the story ... totally unbelievable.

(7) What happened to the passengers?
(c) they were mostly fabricated, just as fake as the rest of the official account ... some were killed, some were given new identities.

[Stuart Miller]

(1) 9/11 was

(a) a terrorist act

(i) involving 19 Islamic fundamentalists

(ii) directed by Osama bin Landen from his cave

(b) an inside job where

(i) the administration "let it happen"

(ii) the administration "made it happen"


(2) The videos are

(a) authentic

(b) faked

(i) flying what'sits at the North Tower

(ii) CGIs, compositing , or holograms at the South


(3) The "collapse" of the Twin Towers

(i) actually happened as the official account claims

(ii) represented a demolition under control

(a) using thermite and conventional explosives

(b) using unconventional methods, such as mini-nukes or some kind of directed-energy devices



(4) The collapse of Building 7

(a) was collateral damage from the destruction of the Twin Towers

(b) was arranged and brought down by a classic controlled demolition


(5) The Pentagon attack

(a) really took place with a Boeing 757 hitting the building

(b) involved a fly-over by a Boeing 757 which did not hit the building

(c) involved a second, smaller plane that may have fired a missile into the building


(6) The Shanksville crash

(a) occurred just as the government has claimed (into a mining shaft or whatever)

(b) did not occur at all and is just as phony as the rest of the official story


(7) What happened to the passengers?

(a) they were killed in the plane crashes

(b) they were kidnapped and are in undisclosed secret locations

(c) they were mostly fabricated, just as fake as the rest of the official account

There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that the planes did not hit any of the supposed targets. Missiles were used throughout in my opinion. The only thing I struggle with is how they brought the twin towers down. That i find more facinating that anything else because we all saw them do that and we don't know how it was done (apart from obviously).

[dr rasmonita segarra]

I am responding to today's e-mail. I believe 9/11 was an inside job perpetrated by those who had their own agenda; Bush to get his Patriot Act passed, to profit from the Iraq & Afganistan wars and to develope the Department of Homeland Security. Maybe he had some buddies who needed important jobs. In addition the guy who leased the WTC also profited, millions in gold are missing. Insider traders profited from "put options" with American and United Airlines.It was a terrorist act led by Bush, his brother and other cronies and it was fake, as was the 9/11 Commission, a joke.
These people murdered 3,000 innocent people although who knows if even more perished. Not everyone had family to report them missing. There were 2 planes off loaded elsewhere, if they even existed, so that unmanned military or cargo planes and or missles could take their place and then attack TWC and The Pentagon. Videos prove there wasn't enough wreckage at The Pentagon to prove a plane had hit it. Likewise Flight 93. There was no wreckage there, just a hole in the ground; no blood, bodies, luggage, metal, engines, etc. Get the picture? What a nice story for the American people. A plane full of heros. Yeah right! The Middle Eastern scapegoats were just that, scapegoats!
It is my belief that the 9/11 videos proving a conspiracy against the American people are authentic, without a doubt. I was in the military and am familiar how it does things. The WTC and bldg 7 were controlled demolitions. It's quite obvious. The bombs were put in place by the military weeks in advance, not only did they have the knowledge necessary to place these, only the military can get hold of said detonation materials(Thermite). No one else!
No one on the planes died. These were ghost planes flown by remote control.
Nothing was done when it was discovered JFK was killed by a conspiracy. Maybe he wasn't corrupt enough? I don't imagine nine years could make a difference. About a year ago I got that Bush and his faithful paramilitary buddies had pulled off this hoax. I am very depressed at this discovery and am making plans to live outside of the U.S. I'm never voting again either. I am totally disillusioned with the U.S. govenrment. I'm selling my house and everything and taking my dog to live elsewhere! dr r segara Spec 4 Retired USA

[dr rasmonita segarra]

9/11 was an inside job to pass the Patriot Act and for Bush to further his and his buddies' agendas and to get richer.I believe in karma. in his next life he will lead a horrendous existence!

Dean said:

I have a question I would like to submit as a poll for anyone who wants to answer:

What is the most important issue for the 9/11 research community to investigate right now and why

[dr rasmonita segarra]

we're in afganistan so that the CIA can make millions/billions and keep cash flowing in the u.s.! obama is in on it too.

Thoth II said:

quoting Sandy: "okay, any comments about barack obama from anyone at this point? i must say
i am sorely disappointed and a bit surprised at his actions, i don't think the people voted
him in thinking he would do what he is doing. and of course, about 9/11, he does his
look-to-the-future-bury-the-past dance.....ug."

Since you brought Obama up, I might as well give my 2 cents on him. I think he serves 3 masters, and he knows it: the national security people, Wall Street, and the Democratic party. I think he is deferring to his national security people to run that whole Afghanistan-Pakistan horror, and what is left of the neocon war against Osama nonsense. Wall Street: many of the bailouts continued and his treasury people are all Wall Street. But the good thing is, some of the democratic party planks like health care and welfare are good things, that is his main advantage over Bush. But overall, we're still in deep trouble politically with the same basic players behind the scenes. I remember one of those pathetic NBC or CBS Sunday morning talk commentators saying something like: "there are people in Washington who were there in power before Obama, and they know they'll be in power long after he's gone, so they don't take him seriously". When that is the attitude of the national media, what real hope does an individual have of changing the system. JFK saw the pathology clearly, really attempted to change it, and they quickly removed him and his brother.

[dr rasmonita segarra]

i agree 100%!

Thoth II said:

The book that gave me the greatest insight into the forces JFK was doing battle with is:

"JFK and the Unspeakable" by Jim Douglass

He says in preface: "John Kennedy's story is our story, although a titanic effort has been made to keep it from us. That story... is as current today as it was in 1963" . The forces that took him out had to conceal not only the facts of the assassination, of course to cover their tracks, but also the true reasons he was taken out .

He shows how JFK battled with the unspeakable forces on 3 major fronts: Cuba, Vietnam, and Soviet Union, and some of the architects of the asssassination wanted to not only take out JFK but also provoke a war with Cuba and Russia.

[Thoth II]

sure I'll give my 2 cents on the poll questions:

1b (ii) (the LIHOP is almost worse than the official version because it's a canard intended to obfuscate the truth)

2b(ii) (I personally believe it is either CGI or compositing, I'm not enough of an expert, but to me, that CNN broadcast on 9/11 of the hit on the south tower looked from day one suspiciously like the first down marker they CGI over the football games)

3(ii) (b) (I've always thought it was mini nukes primarily , (1) they wouldn't have needed that many and they can be very small, you could easily ignite them from top to bottom of towers, (2) high levels of heavy hydrogen isotopes, evidence of a fusion reaction, (3) I once heard a Dr. say that there were weird radiation induced cancers such as at Hiroshima, (4) the blast wave was primarily from the inside out, so in addition to pulverization of concrete, there was also lateral outward blowing of steel members, (5) my gut instinct of DEW is that it wouldn't have been absorbed in the steel, think of putting a metal spoon into your microwave oven, a midget DEW, it would just spark off and not heat the steel spoon.

4(b) ZERO doubt on that one- that's what went down on Building 7 sure as 2 + 2 = 4

5 and 6, I'm sorry to say I've focused on twin towers, and didn't study pentagon or shanksville because they bored me, but the Barbara Olsson thing is a dead giveaway of the whole thing being faked: why of all people on this earth would a prominent Bushite just happen to be on that flight? I wouldn't believe that in a hundred years. Barbara Olsson, come out of hiding, do the public of this world a great service instead of that petty man W, and expose this charade after all this time!!!!

7(c) again I haven't focused on this much, but I think since there were no Boeing flights crashing into the purported sites, why would any of it be real? No NTSB investigation was conducted to find plane parts, maybe those flights never flew?

[dr rasmonita segarra]

the most important issue is to make bush and his cronies accountable for the hoaxes they ran on the american people and prosecute them for murder, treason, theft and other charges. Second keep false flag operations from occuring again. expose everyone involved!

dr rasmonita segarra said:

9/11 was an inside job to pass the Patriot Act and for Bush to further his and his buddies' agendas and to get richer.I believe in karma. in his next life he will lead a horrendous existence!

Dean said:

I have a question I would like to submit as a poll for anyone who wants to answer:

What is the most important issue for the 9/11 research community to investigate right now and why