Open Discussion

[James H. Fetzer]

Sandy has suggested that we have a space for open discussion of topics that may be off-topic. That's fine with me. Let's see if the "Discussion" option will serve that purpose. Please give it a shot. Jim

[James H. Fetzer]

Shermer appears to be a purveyor of misinformation. He is wrong on JFK and wrong on 9/11--and should know better!

Thoth II said:

Shermer appearance on coast to coast

Michael Shermer appeared last night on Geory Noory's radio show. He claims to be a "skeptic" (whatever that means). But his tone sounds more like the dark side's . For example, he supports the OBL did 911 and 7/7 official line, hook , line, and sinker. He talks about the National Geographic special as a great documentary.

He thinks there is merit to Posner's Case Closed. He actually believes Oswald did it alone, unbelievable.
For example, he says Oswald got his job at the book depository before Kennedy's trip was planned to Dallas. Huh? How could he possibly know what the intelligence people knew ahead of time?

Of course, he trumpets that "Conspiracy Theorist" tin foil hat nonsense. Does he understand the rules of logic and inference to best explanation? Some kind of "skeptic"

[James H. Fetzer]

Shermer appears to have been set up to play the role of apologist for the official account on serious matters. After all, who is going to challenge the editor of THE SKPETIC, which has it office on the campus of CalTech? Give me a break.

Thoth II said:

Shermer appearance on coast to coast

Michael Shermer appeared last night on Geory Noory's radio show. He claims to be a "skeptic" (whatever that means). But his tone sounds more like the dark side's . For example, he supports the OBL did 911 and 7/7 official line, hook , line, and sinker. He talks about the National Geographic special as a great documentary.

He thinks there is merit to Posner's Case Closed. He actually believes Oswald did it alone, unbelievable.
For example, he says Oswald got his job at the book depository before Kennedy's trip was planned to Dallas. Huh? How could he possibly know what the intelligence people knew ahead of time?

Of course, he trumpets that "Conspiracy Theorist" tin foil hat nonsense. Does he understand the rules of logic and inference to best explanation? Some kind of "skeptic"

[Thoth II]

"Sorry to hear you had to endure nbc or msnsa or comcrap or GE (your friendly reactor waste company), Thoth."

thanks

I actually have to endure that stuff whenever I'm stuck in waiting rooms they usually have CNN blaring . People are being duped by this nonsense, which is probably why they keep it rolling. I really believe that most of those young reporters they have on there have no understanding whatever about what they are reading. They just need a career and read whatever they are being fed, probably ultimately it's all coming from CIA and NSA.

[Thoth II]

sad news: Jim DiEugenio finally has made a big mistake: he firmly is staying "agnostic" on Z film alteration because he doesn't want to spend a decade on the Z film, and he's a careful studier. He doesn't seem to understand the implication of this. After John Costella's work and now the topper , Doug Horne's Inside the ARRB, I think the ball game is over: the film was fabricated! And this is not the small thing people might think, it is major. It totally distorts the events of the assassination like taking out the limo stop that goes right to secret service complicity, it doesn't clearly show the several impacts on JFK and Connally . Plus, it means the CIA had the film and altered it! If Lee Oswald did it, why did they alter it? Who was Zapruder? Too bad Jim doesn't get this.

[James H. Fetzer]

Thoth II, I've even had him as a featured guest on "The Real Deal"! That is truly unbelievable. I'll have to ask him.

Thoth II said:

sad news: Jim DiEugenio finally has made a big mistake: he firmly is staying "agnostic" on Z film alteration because he doesn't want to spend a decade on the Z film, and he's a careful studier. He doesn't seem to understand the implication of this. After John Costella's work and now the topper , Doug Horne's Inside the ARRB, I think the ball game is over: the film was fabricated! And this is not the small thing people might think, it is major. It totally distorts the events of the assassination like taking out the limo stop that goes right to secret service complicity, it doesn't clearly show the several impacts on JFK and Connally . Plus, it means the CIA had the film and altered it! If Lee Oswald did it, why did they alter it? Who was Zapruder? Too bad Jim doesn't get this.

[Thoth II]

Yes on a recent black op program, Jim D. described the Z-film alteration researchers as a "cabal" with strong arm tactics. He just doesn't get it. John Costella is a brilliant expert in optics, and he proved there are physically impossible features in the film: get these apples: people in the car are seen to be violently lurching forward while the car is still moving - IMPOSSIBLE! and when laws of physics are violated , ball game over. And now I was reading Horne's treatise and he proves that 2 sets of briefing boards were prepared that weekend at NPIC - why?
only to alter the film of course: so much for the usual WC cover story. Sadly, he even repeats that old canard about all the films would have been altered! He's one step behind Horne, Horne shows that the films ARE inconsistent, and on and on.

Ok, 50 years have passed. It's time for the truth and nothing but the truth in all its ugliness to come out! We deserve that much. And I don't have patience for people who stand in the way of that truth. 50 years is long enough.

[Thoth II]

Is Republican healthcare propaganda working?

One of the frustrating things I've had over last 40 years or so is arguing with fellow Americans over healthcare. One thing I often hear people saying is that Canadian healthcare is inferior to American healthcare because of long waiting lists. That sure doesn't seem as important to me as access, which all Canadians have, but all Americans don't. Plus what if you are layed off and lose your health insurance? And how can any civil society tolerate insurance companies, the same people who handle fire and auto insurance, to handle health?

Now, I have been seeing report over the healthcare debate in US. I am astounded by the number of men /women in the street who say: I don't want a national healthcare system because it'll increase my taxes. I would say to them, how much are you already paying in taxes and is it being used wisely? How much more percentage taxes does a typical Canadian pay to their national govt. than an American, but they get healthcare for that dollar.

Has republican propaganda worked? It seems like it's been very effective.

[Thoth II]

"Inside the ARRB" by Doug Horne: the BIBLE of JFK.

Trash your Warren Commission, a new official treatise has appeared on the scene, only this one is honest. I say official because after all, it was inside an official government investigation. But this one, I am reading, is so well organized and simple to understand. The evidence is laid out and he draws obvious conclusions. Now if they'd done this one in 1964, maybe our democracy could have been saved.

[James H. Fetzer]

Birds of a Feather: Subverting the Constitution at Harvard Law
by Jim Fetzer
http://911scholars.ning.com/profiles/blogs/birds-of-a-feather-subve...

sandy rose said:

got this from my cincy bud Karl...


Obama staffer wants ‘cognitive infiltration’ of 9/11 conspiracy groups

By Daniel Tencer
Wednesday, January 13th, 2010 -- 10:48 pm










Source:http://rawstory.com/2010/01/obama-staffer-infiltration-911-groups/



In a 2008 academic paper, President Barack Obama's appointee to head the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs advocated "cognitive infiltration" of groups that advocate "conspiracy theories" like the ones surrounding 9/11.


Cass Sunstein, a Harvard law professor, co-wrote an academic article entitled "Conspiracy Theories: Causes and Cures," in which he argued that the government should stealthily infiltrate groups that pose alternative theories on historical events via "chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups and attempt to undermine" those groups.


As head of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, Sunstein is in charge of "overseeing policies relating to privacy, information quality, and statistical programs," according to the White House Web site.


Sunstein's article, published in the Journal of Political Philosphy in 2008 and recently uncovered by blogger Marc Estrin, states that "our primary claim is that conspiracy theories typically stem not from irrationality or mental illness of any kind but from a 'crippled epistemology,' in the form of a sharply limited number of (relevant) informational sources."


By "crippled epistemology" Sunstein means that people who believe in conspiracy theories have a limited number of sources of information that they trust. Therefore, Sunstein argued in the article, it would not work to simply refute the conspiracy theories in public -- the very sources that conspiracy theorists believe would have to be infiltrated.


Sunstein, whose article focuses largely on the 9/11 conspiracy theories, suggests that the government "enlist nongovernmental officials in the effort to rebut the theories. It might ensure that credible independent experts offer the rebuttal, rather than government officials themselves. There is a tradeoff between credibility and control, however. The price of credibility is that government cannot be seen to control the independent experts."
Download a PDF of the article here.


Sunstein argued that "government might undertake (legal) tactics for breaking up the tight cognitive clusters of extremist theories." He suggested that "government agents (and their allies) might enter chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups and attempt to undermine percolating conspiracy theories by raising doubts about their factual premises, causal logic or implications for political action."


"We expect such tactics from undercover cops, or FBI," Estrin writes at the Rag Blog, expressing surprise that "a high-level presidential advisor" would support such a strategy.
Estrin notes that Sunstein advocates in his article for the infiltration of "extremist" groups so that it undermines the groups' confidence to the extent that "new recruits will be suspect and participants in the group’s virtual networks will doubt each other’s bona fides."


Sunstein has been the target of numerous "conspiracy theories" himself, mostly from the right wing political echo chamber, with conservative talking heads claiming he favors enacting "a second Bill of Rights" that would do away with the Second Amendment. Sunstein's recent book, On Rumors: How Falsehoods Spread, Why We Believe Them, What Can Be Done, was criticized by some on the right as "a blueprint for online censorship."
Sunstein "wants to hold blogs and web hosting services accountable for the remarks of commenters on websites while altering libel laws to make it easier to sue for spreading 'rumors,'" wrote Ed Lasky at American Thinker.



nice. i'm pretty sure most of us know that they've been doing this all along, but
hey, it just goes to show that they are worried about the truth community and that
is a good thing! ha ha! if we weren't on to something huge, why would they care?
i also read it as an admission of guilt for the same reason. guilty guilty guilty.
strikes me as a wee bit odd after 7/eight years of 'getting away with it' why care now?
nice to know they see us as an obstacle to their big lie(s). like a twisted compliment!

ps to the infiltraitors, truth doesn't go away no matter how hard you try! doh!

(it is always sensible to assume that the guilty ones are 'listening', i'm sure most of us do.)
thanks, Karl, this is a nice thing to pass on to all our fellow truthers, eh? sandy




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[Thoth II]

Thoth II said:

History Channel: Propaganda central

Add discovery channel to the history channel as propaganda central. All day I am watching a marathon of phony docs on discovery. I just heard Gary Mack on one say something like no shooters could possibly have fired from the triple overpass because too many people were up there (I wonder why he focuses on that location to debunk? probably because it WAS a firing location). Then he claims there is no hard evidence that anyone other than Oswald did any shooting. He is outright lying here.
History and Discovery channels, disgusting lies parading as legit documentaries.

.

[James H. Fetzer]

Google "Reasoning about Assassinations" and "Thinking about 'Conspiracy Theories': 9/11 and JFK" for evidence that contradicts him. Download my chapter from http://www.und.edu/org/jfkconference/ . Oswald's weapon was not high velocity, but JFK was killed by the impact of high velocity bullets. Therefore, Oswald's weapon cannot have fired the bullets that killed JFK. Mack tells lots of whoppers! I think it is fair to say that he--the Curator of The 6th Floor Museum--deliberately disseminates false information about the assassination.

Thoth II said:

Thoth II said:

History Channel: Propaganda central

Add discovery channel to the history channel as propaganda central. All day I am watching a marathon of phony docs on discovery. I just heard Gary Mack on one say something like no shooters could possibly have fired from the triple overpass because too many people were up there (I wonder why he focuses on that location to debunk? probably because it WAS a firing location). Then he claims there is no hard evidence that anyone other than Oswald did any shooting. He is outright lying here.
History and Discovery channels, disgusting lies parading as legit documentaries.

.

[James H. Fetzer]

Sandy, I think you mean "trolls", who are zealous supporters of specific positions or personalities, such as Judy Wood, or agents of disinformation, who are deliberately misrepresenting situations, as appears to be the case with Gary Mack. No doubt there are other categories, too, but those are among the most important.

sandy rose said:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/02/03/intel-chief-risk-crippli...
what are the TOOLS trying to tell us with this one? and do we count as people who use the internet for malicious purposes? i bet we qualify in their warped mugs. or might they pull a cyber attack of their own and then say 'we told you so'.

i think i got this from clg.