9/11 Scholars Forum

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How far did the top 30 floors of the South Tower tilt? and did they turn to dust?



During an ongoing discussion with a physicist from Canada, he told
me he had watched my London symposium presentation and was not
convinced by some of my arguments. One concerned the tilt of the
top 30 floors of the South Tower, which I and Steven Jones have both
argued pivoted and turned to dust. Reviewing videos available today,
it looks to me as though both of us may have formed beliefs that are
somewhat exaggerated about this phenomenon. Indeed, the link at
the bottom of the page refers to an extended, frame by frame analysis,
where the link is not longer operative, which leads me to suspect that
it may be the case that substitutions are being made of some of the
"raw data". I would welcome research from any of you on this issue.

Denis,

Here is what Steve Jones wrote in "Why indeed did the WTC Buildings
Collapse?", in Griffin and Scott, eds., 9/11 AND AMERICAN EMPIRE,
on pages 47-48 (where the word "collapse" does not fit the data):

"Those who wish to preserve fundamental physical laws as inviolate
may wish to take a closer look at the collapse of the south tower.
We observe that approximately 30 upper floors began to rotate as a
block, to the south and east. The began to topple over, as favored
by the Law of Increasing Entropy. The torque due to gravity on this
block was enormous, as was it angular momentum. But then--and I am
still puzzling over--this block turned mostly to powder in mid-air!
How can we explain this strange behavior, without explosives? This
is a remarkable, amazing phenomenon, and yet the US government-funded
reports failed to analyze it. The NIST reports analysis, as we have
seen, "does not actually include the structural behavior of the tower
after the conditions for collapse initiation were reached". Nothing
could better illustrate the fact that a serious official analysis of
the collapses still remains to be carried out."

Indeed, as I explain in the 20 basic findings I have also forwarded
to you, the NIST was never even able to establish the conditions for
any form of "collapse initiation". Here are some videos of the ST:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhyu-fZ2nRA

Reviewing these, I now think that Steve and I may have exaggerated
the extent of the "tilt" of the top 30 floors and of the extent to
which we can see it turn to dust. I argued that, since it turned
to dust, it no longer existed to exert any downward force. From
some of these clips, you can see it dropping after having reached
an incline closer to 15*, I would guess, far from as much as 40 or
more. Of course, once it tilts, it is exerting asymmetrical force
on the floors below, which are already turning it dust themselves.
Both towers are destroyed below ground level, which was essential
to preserve the integrity of the bathtub. But I appreciate that
you forced me to review this argument again. The next time that
I address this issue, I will make a more qualified statement. So
I already appreciate our conversation of earlier today, no matter
how much I may have resisted your suggestions at the time. Thank
you for that. And I look forward to further exchanges between us.
I want to find the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but about
9/11, even if that means correcting my own views from time to time.

Jim

Quoting jfetzer@d.umn.edu:

Re: An excellent discussion of the phenomenon . . .

http://www.thepowerhour.com/911_analysis/laws-of-physics.htm

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Comment by Thoth II on September 18, 2010 at 7:53am
Chuck

"The top 16 Floors were exerting only a Gravity Force downward, while the bottom 94 Floor were exerting inter atomic and intermolecular bonding forces of an Electromagnetic nature where the particles are powerfully attracted to and bonded to each other in the steel's elastic crystal."

That pretty much demolishes Thomas whole pancake collapse. His animation of collapse is pretty impressive until you realize he isn't using conservation of momentum correctly, treating that one floor as an isolated system when it's attached to the rest of the floors by the atomic and molecular bonding forces.

I listened to your real deal podcast, I look forward to reading your powerpoints, you made mince meat of Dave Thomas. I really am disgusted by pseudo scientists like Thomas who parade as real honest scientists trying to convince joe sixpack that the govt. has proven the science.
Comment by Chuck Boldwyn on September 17, 2010 at 7:23pm
The 30 floors appeared to tilt about 10 degrees or more, at which time only the tilted toward side of the Tower wall was directly intact and basically no other part of the Tower was making any contact nor exherting any Vector Forces.
Here is where the tiling top had its tilting motion interrupted by the sudden initiation of exploding bombs or explosives, both at the bottom of the falling, and in a tilt ( about 10 degrees or more), top 30 floors.
The top 30 floors fell at this same approximate angle, 10 degrees, as it fell straight down.
The entire top of the bottom 80 floors were, at the same time, exploding into far flung and collosally sized fragments, even though the top 30 floors were not making contact, especially the far side directly accross from the tilted side.
The top 30 floors were tunded into dust, near totally, after it had fallen about
? 20 to 30 floors ? Both top and bottom blocks were exploding at about the same rate.

By the way, in the North Tower only 1% of the Twin Towers mass of steel made up the top 16 floors, while 99% of the Twin Tower's steel was composing the bottom 94 floors.

Therefore, according to the slanted mass media, they are indirectly claiming that 1% of the steel mass can gravity collapse the far larger bottom block composed of 99% of the same Twin Tower's steel.

1% of any building steel mass can never crush and pulverize the other 99% of the same building's steel mass.

Top 16 Floors (falling) = 1%
Bottom (94 + 6 Basement) Floors = 99%
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Twin Tower steel mass = 100%

The top 16 Floors were exerting only a Gravity Force downward, while the bottom 94 Floor were exerting inter atomic and intermolecular bonding forces of an Electromagnetic nature where the particles are powerfully attracted to and bonded to each other in the steel's elastic crystal. Steel's melting temperature is a direct indicator of the bonding forces holding the steel beams, columns, and connecting components, all made of steel.
Electormagnetic Forces are many magnitudes of count greater and stronger than far weaker Forces associated with Gravity

Forces and Energies involved here is the name of the game to destroy the mass media's phoney and ficticious-physics fairy tales.
If you can not understand Physics and Math and Chemistry and Engineering, you can not scientifically prove the USA Government's and the Mass Media's point of view is wrong and false and phoney and ficticious and fantasy, and most Americans are still adhering to the Mass Media's propaganda against Arabs & Arab or Muslim countries and the Mass Media's perpetual Fear-Mongering of the American people........

Chuck Boldwyn
I will be be publishing some more groundbreaking Twin Towers Research on this site soon, Power Points made into JPEG Graphics.
I am currently working on showing the Falsely Applied Physics of Dave Thomas who appeared on the recent Coast to Coast radio show or 4 hours. I have discussed the "debate" twice with Jim Fetzer on his "Real Deal" internet radio show, both done very recently this month.

Chuck Boldwyn
Comment by Thoth II on September 15, 2010 at 7:31pm
"Indeed, as I explain in the 20 basic findings I have also forwarded
to you, the NIST was never even able to establish the conditions for
any form of "collapse initiation"."

I believe that even qualifying the degree to which this happened on the top floors of south tower, it still stands that noone has adequately described a collapse initiation . First of all, we all know that those top floors were torquing around in the very first place because of explosives or energy sources, not because of fire. Then even if they dropped on floors below, Dave Thomas' entire physics analysis of the pancake collapse is phony physics, making incorrect assumptions that an honest physicist wouldn't do , unless he is fudging, which Thomas most certainly is. And then to top it off, of course, there is no stack of pancakes anyway.

911 truth is still on firm footing!

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